Mikey98118

The original (commercial) ribbon burners use fans for positive air pressure. For several years now people on this site have been building successful naturally aspirated ribbon burners, while a few have gone the forced air rout...less successfully. I do not find that surprising. I think their problem is way too much air pressure input, which they then find difficulty in controlling. The likely solution is to use way weaker fans; computer fans are what I would recommend, because the difference between naturally aspirated and computer fan blown is just a whisper more air--and that is all that is desirable.

Yes, their are lots of options; while deciding which one will work best for you, a simple brick stack in front of the forge opening can serve very well. It isn't as though the bricks will be wasted once you decide what kind of door system to install. Firebricks are endlessly useful.

The photo appears--based on size comparison with your hand--to be made from a two-gallon cylinder with its ends removed. What you replaced them with would be of interest to others. The square opening in its side looks like you intend to install a ribbon burner?

So, how did the workshop go?

Totally correct.

To be fair, I never liked Majestic forges; why? Because my only introduction to them was a series of inquiries on this form about old majestic style forges that people where trying to recondition. None of those people came close to being successful; this didn't leave a positive impression on me... What is a fact is that Majestic forge bodies have a weakness; and that is deformation. Could this be corrected? Probably not. Well, then could it be avoided? Certainly!!! Simply do not overheat this forge. Well, why doesn't the manufacturer fix this "flaw"? It isn't a flaw; it is a design limit. This forge was designed for ranchers, who needed a tool to do many tasks well; this forge does just that. The first thing anyone who is serious about forge design learns is compromise; to get something extra you trade something less necessary. There is no perfect tool. Every good forge design has plus and minus factors. A Diamondback forge is a rock solid and economical design, which is easy on fuel consumption and built to last. If what want to do is to learn forging, etc. it is totally excellent. If you want to ranch, choose the Majestic. If you want to run a commercial forge get a Chili forge or learn how to build your own. Buy or build the rate forge for what you plan to do.

I believe they are back under heir original management and doing business as usual. However, a Diamondback forge would probably be a better deal; they are under new management, and have simplified their forge shells in a way I think is an improvement. They have also cheapened their linings and dropped their prices; this allows you to replace the lining for the difference in price later on, so nothing is lost. What then was the point for them? I suspect that avoiding damage in transit of the original hard insulation board was the motive. It is a simple matter to buy this board locally.

The flames in your photos look just fine. As to rebuilding that forge, I would simply add more bricks to raise the floor level.

As to the flame appearance, Hefty is correct. As to commenting on Amal burners; I don't go there; they have a good reputation among their users, but their dynamics are foreign to any design I have built.

It looks like you are using high alumina kiln shelves for the front and back plates. Is that correct? Or are you using something else? How hot do the plates get over time?

If you place the burner high up on a side wall and aimed at the opposite side wall, then you can screw its mounting plate unto an existing angle iron; this also provides the best positioning of the burner in a box shape forge.

The answer is that, with ribbon burners, positioning is less critical than with any other kind. The position you propose will work just fine, as will many others. So, what is the "best" position with ribbon burners? Mostly it is simply a matter of preference. These days "refractory concrete" is a very loose term. However, most refractories do not make a good choice for use in ribbon burners, for two reasons. To begin with, ribbon burners most withstand severe thermal cycling without cracking. The second problem is heat gain in its internal mixing chamber, leading to early combustion. Kast-O-lite 30 has been the refractory of choice for years because it is formulated to resist thermal cracking and do a very good job of insulating; it is also rated to 3000 F.

The Sandia forge did work well, as Charlot said. However, its users complained that its stainless steel piping lasted kind of fast; it was still aworthwhile trade off ten years ago; mostly the trade was time and welding supplies for added heat/reduced fuel use. However, with today's steeper price of stainless steel, welding supplies, and electricity, the bargain is looking grimmer.

On most burner designs the main variable between running rich or lean is the gas opening diameter versus mixing tube's inside diameter, and the distance between the end of the gas jet and the forward ends of the mixing tube in Mikey burners, or of the distance to the exit side of air funnels in other designs, matter less. However with Frosty "T" burners the distance between the end of the MIG contact tip and the opening of the air/gas exit is every bit as critical as gas orifice size.

I also note that your burner sits snugly within the forge opening, leaving no air gap to induce reverse flow of super heated air from the forge interior after shut off. Also, the burner's mixing tube is plenty long enough to avoid over heating of the the gas hose after shutoff, unless...you leave the burner's air choke (the red sliding sleeve shown in your photo) open after shutdown; in which case, internal heat will flow merrily up the mixing tube, and out of the burner's air vents, cooking the gas hose

There is nothing wrong with that idea. You would be smart to look at how Diamondback Forges has changed their original design; the first one was good, but the new forge bodies are even better, and are well worth imitating. Also, you would be ahead to replace the choice of pop-rivets with machine screws, to hold the new forge body parts; screws are more work, but allow you easy access for internal changes and/or repairs...just a thought.

How well insulating firebricks stand up to thermal cycling depends on several factors. First, it depends on their rated temperature range; the higher the range the tougher the bricks. Secondly it depends on the manufacturer. Morgan bricks will far outlast no name brands. Then, how gently they are treated, how hot the forge gets, and whether or not their flame surfaces are coated. Finally, as you mentioned, they need to be cradled--not compressed against each other. Of course, there is a trade off between use length and extra cost/work to do all this...

If your present hose has suffered heat damage, replacing it with another hose will not solve your problem. And suggesting that you move your burner's orientation is not a practical solution; it will work, but is fixing your problem the hard way. In your shoes, I would take the Frosty path, which is to use copper refrigeration tubing for the last foot or two between a fuel hose and the forge's burners.

You're welcome. But how sad it is to here that Frosty is gone The Z axis is a fine choice for a forge door; it is simple and effective. I'm assuming that your pair of Frosty burners are 1/2"? Mikey

It goes against my grain to suggest that you move your burner nozzles closer to the forge interior. We all spend considerable time advising people to push them deeper; not shallower. However, You may want to try moving them closer to the interior openings, just to see if there is some interference with their flames from irregularities in the shapes of the burner openings. You can always move them back deeper. If the flames improve, does this mean they were too deep? Maybe, but it is more likely that the openings should be improved by sanding. Just a thought. As too the problem of heating from interior atmosphere, it comes up fairly frequently, and must be tinkered with, case by case. I would love to tell you what is going on for sure and certain. Alas, Mikey don't know (gasp!) Twenty-six years thinking about this subject, and still there are things I just don't know... Maybe Frosty does.

Your thermometer is in the ballpark; I figured the forge to be about 2450 ⁰F just from its high yellow incandescence, before I even read what you wrote about temperature readings. As to the worry about too much secondary air; that will strictly depend on how much larger the burner portal diameters are than the flame retention nozzle diameters. However, I don't think the forge would be heating anywhere near as well as it obviously is doing, if secondary air was a problem. As to fine tuning your burners; those are Frosty burners, and therefore I will bow his expertise about anything regarding them.

Morgan's high heat insulating bricks came out just a few years ago, and they were a revelation when the did. However, you can find their equivalent in high thermal rated insulating bricks from several sources these days. Look into bricks being used for pizza ovens, to find what you need locally.

Be sure to describe your solution for how to mount the burners, because this is a point of anxiety for many builders. We cannot have to many choices on how to go about it. Anxiety stops more people than any lack of tools.

Looking over you forge design, I think you are a minimalist; someone who well understands what an engineer means by the term "elegant solution." Frosty would be the first to say "that certainly ain't me." But if it were, I would recommend that you drill holes for your burners that are about 3/16" larger diameter than their flame retention nozzles, right through the steel shell, insulation, and refractory (with a hole saw) after it has had time to set up completely, but before it is fired. Then secure each burner into its opening with a simple angle bracket, on either side; it is simple easy, and cheap. It is oh so not the Mikey way, but it is an elegant solution. On the other hand, if you want to leave design elegance behind, I will be happy to show you, step by step, how to do things the hard way; it is wanna my favorite things...

Just a few thoughts. First, I just LOVE small burners, and eagerly await you and Frosty ironing the kinks out of yours Second, completely aside from the original reasons why I recommended a top down burner orientation at two o'clock, and aimed just short of a forge floor's far corner, you need the height to keep the flame well away from work pieces in a small diameter forge. I am not doubling down on my original advice. In fact, after a few years I came to agree that four o'clock was superior; but that was in much larger forges than yours, which of course provide more height to the flame crossing over work pieces. So, two o'clock is my advice for your case. "Circumstances alters cases." And advice must keep that in mind. Finally, I hope you are leaving room between the edge of your forge's end plates, and the inner edge of your refractory flame surface. Otherwise that steel will warp in no time at all. Good luck. BTW, I just love small forges too