lil90crxman Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hello my names Marty I'm a noob and trying to get into blacksmithing I have a couple nice hammers and a friend that works at a machine shop that made me an anvil he makes tooling dies for Timken but he made this anvil from special made tool steel it's called 3311 I can't find any information on it he told me it's similar to 4140 steel but all I want to know is if I should heat treat to harden it or just leave it be and use it how it is the anvil it's self is 5in tall 5.5in wide and 10in long and weighs a good 40-50 lbs if I were to heat treat it would be in a coal forge and cascading water but I need advice and tips please help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 you may want a rounded surface on the horn and various radii on the edges of the table, a small pritchel is also handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Welcome aboard Marty, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. Ask your friend about heat treat, he aught to be able to get you the spec sheet. That's a pretty little anvil it's profile is to be expected from someone who doesn't use one. It'll do just fine for now, you'll need to fasten it solidly. I the addiction catches you like it has us you'll be looking for and finding a larger more traditional anvil before long. Once you have a larger anvil in your shop that little beauty will be a PERFECT bench anvil or loaner to someone YOU are in the process of addicting to blacksmithing. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil90crxman Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thank you for your comments. I plan on getting a real anvil eventually but this one was free. And the machinist who made has no smithing experience and this came from 6" round stock so he couldn't do a proper horn with the piece of scrap he had but all in all it has two 90 degree edges and two curved. But The only information that he gave me was that it's called 3311 and it's similar to 4140 Timken makes it specifically for the tooling i don't know if there is a spec sheet for it! So what would anyone else do heat treat or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 You should try and figure out how hard it is and what kind of rebound you currently have. It may be just fine the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Thank you for your comments. I plan on getting a real anvil eventually but this one was free. And the machinist who made has no smithing experience and this came from 6" round stock so he couldn't do a proper horn with the piece of scrap he had but all in all it has two 90 degree edges and two curved. But The only information that he gave me was that it's called 3311 and it's similar to 4140 Timken makes it specifically for the tooling i don't know if there is a spec sheet for it! So what would anyone else do heat treat or no? There is definitely a spec sheet. At a minimum find the name of the company which supplied the steel and contact them. There are simply too many variable to offer any advice other than to use it. If the metal you hit on it is hot, it will be much softer than your anvil. Most tool steels are very hard without being hardened anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil90crxman Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Arftist thanks a lot that's good advice maybe I'll try calling The Timken Co. For any information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Maybe ask your buddy first... you don't want to get him in trouble if he wasn't supposed to 'repurpose' "scrap" pieces in that manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Making an anvil out of unknown material means - DON'T HARDEN IT!!! Anvils aren't hard, they have to have some give. If an anvil started to chip and created ricocheting bullets, there would be some VERY HURT people. Start simple. Use it as it is. If and when you see a problem beginning, you can deal with it at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpearson Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 No need to call google has it. GRADES OF STEEL We produce more than 300 standard types of steel in a range of quality levels. In addition, we make more than 450 customized alloy steel grades such as the ones shown below. The Practical Data for Metallurgists handbook has more information for you – go to the “physical constants – grades of steel” page to learn more. Carburizing Steel Grades 4120 5120 8620/8720 4720 4320 3310/3311 CBS-600* CBS-50 Nil* - See more at: http://timkensteel.com/what-we-make/high-performance-steel/grades-of-steel#sthash.R3hNXcWW.dpuf RESTRICTED HARDENABILITY STEELS Chemical Composition Ranges SAE No. C Mn Si Ni Cr Mo 15B21RH(1) .17/.22 .80/1.10 .15/.35 ............. ............. ............. 15B35RH(1) .33/.38 .80/1.10 .15/.35 ............. ............. ............. 3310RH .08/.13 .40/.60 .15/.35 3.25/3.75 1.40/1.75 ............. 4027RH .25/.30 .70/.90 .15/.35 ............. ............. .20/.30 4118RH .18/.23 .70/.90 .15/.35 ............. .40/.60 .08/.15 4120RH .18/.23 .90/1.20 .15/.35 ............. .40/.60 .13/.20 4130RH .28/.33 .40/.60 .15/.35 ............. .80/1.10 .15/.25 4140RH .38/.43 .75/1.00 .15/.35 ............. .80/1.10 .15/.25 4145RH .43/.48 .75/1.00 .15/.35 ............. .80/1.10 .15/.25 4161RH .56/.64 .75/1.00 .15/.35 ............. .70/.90 .25/.35 4320RH .17/.22 .45/.65 .15/.35 1.65/2.00 .40/.60 .20/.30 4620RH .17/.22 .45/.65 .15/.35 1.65/2.00 ............. .20/.30 4820RH .18/.23 .50/.70 .15/.35 3.25/3.75 ............. .20/.30 50B40RH(1) .38/.43 .75/1.00 .15/.35 ............. .40/.60 ............. 5130RH .28/.33 .70/.90 .15/.35 ............. .80/1.10 ............. 5140RH .38/.43 .70/.90 .15/.35 ............. .70/.90 ............. 5160RH .56/.64 .75/1.00 .15/.35 ............. .70/.90 ............. 8620RH .18/.23 .70/.90 .15/.35 .40/.70 .40/.60 .15/.25 8622RH .20/.25 .70/.90 .15/.35 .40/.70 .40/.60 .15/.25 8720RH .18/.23 .70/.90 .15/.35 .40/.70 .40/.60 .20/.30 8822RH .20/.25 .75/1.00 .15/.35 .40/.70 .40/.60 .30/.40 9310RH .08/.13 .45/.65 .15/.35 3.00/3.50 1.00/1.40 .08/.15 Unless specified: Cu 5 .35 max, Ni 5 .25 max, Cr 5 .20 max, Mo 5 .06 max (1) B 5 .0005 /.003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 This is a grade timken uses for large bearings that need good toughness. It is a carburizing grade and will need that process folowed by a quench and temper to get the properties you need in an anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil90crxman Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Great information thank you!!!! Now where exactly do I look for tempering? Temp and time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 you may not need your anvil as hard as tool steel can be, the harder it is the more brittle, getting a good balance between them is more important so read up on tempering. if a file wont scratch it then it may be a bit hard, if a file bites in it is too soft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hope you did something very special for your friend- that is quite a gift he gave you! I think most new smiths make some problems with their first anvil- mis-hits, glancing blows, missed materials, etc. If it were mine I would jut use it as is. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 This grade is not a tool steel. It is a carburizing grade designed for bearings. In its current condition it will be quite soft. To heat treat it effectively you need to have professional heat treat shop carburize and quench it. I'd think tempering at 450-475F would be about right to get typical anvil hardness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 you can not harden that grade, UNLESS you first case harden it. Read more, over think less LOL welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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