Crowd Control

[Finnr]

A simple honest approach is what works with me, If someone comes up and says they are a beginner and how would I do , what ever. I am more than happy to explain or demonstrate if I can at the particular event.
Finnr

[ThomasPowers]

I try to hook them up with the local smithing group and give them some urls to check out---like this one...

[David Einhorn]

One of my favorite quicky items is a screw driver with a twist and a closed circle for a handle. They work are great paint can openers also. It gives me a chance to explain how screw drivers evolved a bit since colonial times, how one can fit a screw driver to a screw especially the type used on guns which require fitting to a slot in the screws with straight walls rather than the normal slanted walled screws... that tends to get them to pause a bit and realize that slotted screws usually accept a driver that is tapered on all four surfaces. That can lead into hardening and tempering of tools, as a chisel is not much different from a screw driver.

As far as the question about shoeing horses, I simply explain that my wife never let me try shoeing hers, but I would be happy to give it a try if they would bring their horse around. Of course no one who owns a horse will agree to that! Plus I explain that horses only need shoes if they will be walking across a surface that required their hoofs to be protected. When my wife had horses, they never needed shoes as they never went on rocky surfaces and never walked on hard surfaces such as roads.

As far as not being a real smith, I can only agree since I have only been doing it as a hobby for over 36 years, but I still hope some day to be considered a "real" smith.

I have a handout that attempts to cover as many of the questions that people ask, including information about the equipment used, web addresses to find out information, the basic steps in making a knife, my contact information, and the local guild that offers classes.

As a professional psychotherapist I recommend avoiding traumatizing kids or adults for that matter. Some people are pretty fragile.

Edited August 22, 2008 by UnicornForge

[unkle spike]

On the horse shoeing question:

My family is banned from shoeing horses. Back in the late 1940's my Grandpa and Dad were shoeing a draft horse. While Granpa was shoeing a back foot, the horse bit him, he turned around and knocked the horse out with his hammer. He said "there you *** we will do it my way." He shod the horse laying down, and then my Dad, 10 at the time, had to run next door to get a bucket of water to splash on the horse to wake it up. I asked a current neighbor to Grandpa's shop if this story was true, he said it surely was as he remembers my Dad running into their barn with a bucket to get the water to get the horse up, and going back with Dad to see the horse laying there on it's side while Grandpa finished up....

This usually ends the horseshoeing conversation or try this one:

My neighbor wanted me to shoe their horse. I insisted the only way to get a good fit was to "hot shoe" that is have the shoe red hot, and hammer it on so it would be a "shrink fit". The neighbor wouldn't let me do it, so I never really got into shoeing horses.


As far as "My Grandpa was a Blacksmith" I usually ask where, when, and what did he do. Then I refer them to the binder I keep at Demo's with pictures of the 5 generations in my family. I know some are full of it, but at one time in Clinton TN where I demo, there were 8 blacksmiths at one time, and this is a very small town. I also point out there were "specialties" in Blacksmithing: Silversmiths, tinsmiths, shipwrights, coopers, wheelrights, and farriers.

Edited August 22, 2008 by unkle spike
addl info

[civilwarblacksmith]

I would also take those questions in the perspective of where you are demonstrating. My main shop is in Union Mills, Maryland. This is a little unincorporated town (no mayor or council or town govt), of probably 200 -500 people.

In a small village/town like that your general blacksmith would cover all the blacksmithing bases. He was your blacksmith, farrier, probably did a little bit of wheelwrighting. In the winter his forge would be lit 24/7. It wouldn't be uncommon for a resident of that town to go to the blacksmith shop in the middle of the night and get a small shovel of hot coal to restart a fire that went out, they would of course rebank the fire.

It isn't until you get into the larger towns/cities where you find the trade begomming more speciallized into "blacksmith"; "Farrier"; "wheelwright"; etc.

I also find that everybodies grampa was a blacksmith. Usually from the seniors, and it is very possible that they did some form of smithing. You need to remember that you may be doing a demo in farm country and the seniors remember grampas anvil and forge. Most old farms had them. Does it make grampa an avid smith, no, but he probably used it to make his own repairs.

As far beginner smiths. I love 'em. I will do what every I can to grow the interest in the hobby. They may become a full time smith in the end. If they live close, invite them forge with you if you are able. If they is a local guild or blacksmithing association around, get them plugged in. You just might make some new friends that way.

Handouts are always good to have on hand. Especially if you have handouts from a local blacksmithing organization. You can pass out this information, but it doesn't take the place of face to face, I care and am willing to take the time, communication with the interested party.

Many women are interested in blacksmithing which tends to be thought of as a man's type of work. I had a 19 yr old stand there and stare at the smithing that i was doing, totallt enthrawled. He parents were with and noticed the interest she showed. I explained that anyone can do this, that my daughter was smithing at the age of 13, and also told her of alot of the well known lady smiths. Also that our guild has many women that smith. Hopefully she will join.

Very cute too.

I've rattled enough.

[Daryl]

For those of us who have been smithing for a while, we sometimes lose our appreciation for the effort we have put in to achieve the results we now have. Crowd control is as much being polite as it is setting rules. I believe it has already been mentioned, place your previous, larger examples of your work slightly farther away from your forging station, trinkets and smaller items closer; have a photo album of other previous work handy; businees cards (especially important); if someone says their grandfather or whatever was a Blacksmith, ask them if they had the opportunity to learn anything or at least ask them if they would like to turn the blower for you.
Crowd control is not about corraling people like cattle, rather inviting and leading them to items and places mutually benficial.
I have never had a shortage of helpers or spectators. It has been rare when aggressive people or unruly children have been a problem; asking them to leave will offend no one else in the crowd. Some demos that I attend regularly have familiar faces, bringing along extra relatives or friends (this I value the most). I have had on occasion, people showing up later with items from their farm or whatever, either asking for it to be identified or on occasion wondering if I was interested in purchasing Grandpa's anvil, tongs or whatever; even had a couple items given to me (of course, you make them something in gratitude).
In the shop however, especially during public demonstrations, please do not allow parents to drop off their children so they can watch (read as you are now the babysitter). There is a difference between a young person being interested in what you do and actively watching, and some brat running amok in the shop. Inform those parents that any unruly children will be returned to their parents after being given three cans of Red Bull Cola, two packs of gum and one puppy!

[civilwarblacksmith]

I would have to agree with Daryl except for inviting spectactors in to turn the blower. ONLY do this if you have insurance that will cover them if they get hurt.

[Ten Hammers]

I many times have to tell folks to get their hands off my crank blower. Seems they have a picture in their head that I need help. Some will need to be told twice and they seem upset. I am to the point of making a sign for the blower ( hands off ).

[Firegirl]

I find, as a lady blacksmith, I get more disbelief that a girl would want to be a blacksmith than any real interest in what I do. My favorite is when I'm setting up my demo space and moving my anvil (175#) and some guy wants to know if I need help. Most of them FREAK when they couldn't budge the anvil and I can pick it up and carry it no problem! I love all the questions at a demo show because they are rarely the "Why is this so expensive?" type and more about the work. But I agree about the "free babysitting" aspect. I tell parents that unsupervised children will be given to the fairies.

[Ramsberg]

As to the placing of a hands off sign on the blower, that is just what my Great Grandfather did with his blower at his blacksmith shop. You can see him and his shop(Frank Ramsby) at the home page of Anvilfire.com when it cycles sometimes or directly at:

Wyllys and Ramsby - 19th Century Blacksmith Shop Photos

The wild thing about, "My grandfather was a blacksmith" is, well what is a blacksmith? A direct definition of blacksmith is anyone that works hot iron with a hammer and an anvil. Back in the day many farmers made some of their own tools and repairs with a forge, anvil and hammer. To me they were at least part blacksmiths and any kid who saw them working the hot metal would, well. . .

Almost every one involved in blacksmithing for a few years knows how to mig or tig weld, now that doesn't make us welders, but. . .

There is a big difference between some one asking me if I shoe horses and if blacksmiths shoe horses. I don't, but my great grandfather sure did as you can see from the photos. However, he was an expert race horse trainer, who had a pet ram which followed him around everywhere. This leads me to believe that blacksmiths have always been a bit crazy.

This is all a bit complicated, lots of people back in the day would buy a small anvil and bellows and make nails to sell in front of their open fireplace in the winter. They were blacksmiths of sorts, they may not have known or cared what a flatter was for, but they did for a while at least work hot metal.

One thing that I believe brings up all of the "My Grandfather was a blacksmith" when they find out you are or at a demo is, well, when else would such a conversation be relevant. There arn't many people who are interested in hearing about some past reletive working hot metal, but if you are talking to a blacksmith, well my grandpa did that too, type of thing. I don't know, it is a bit complicated.

The shop that my Great Grandfather had in Kirkland, a small town of 300 - 400 people, had about three other shops and all of these shops had at least three people working in them. That is 1 of 25 to 1 of 33 people in the town being a blacksmith, then there were the farmers who had a "blacksmith shop" in their barn. Then one could ask, how many people helped as a young kid or teenager in a blacksmith shop and then went on to other things, these were blacksmiths too. My friends Grandfather was a blacksmith, that is when he was a kid his father was a full time blacksmith and had his son help him and taught him many things. Now my friends Grandfather went on to start a heavy machinery dealership and repair buisness(cranes, bulldozers etc.), so he WAS a blacksmith at one point.

All of this says to me that considering how many people were involved in blacksmithing at some point and the two sets of grandparents per person deal, reduces the number of people who have a "blacksmith" as a blood reletive(ie. grandparent of great-grandparent) down to 1 in 5 or 1 in 3.

This to me is about the ration of how many people say, "My Grandfather was a blacksmith".

Now the question is, how do you deal with the, "I want to" or "Will you" "Make me a sword"!

I once had a kid(20 or so) ask me to help him make a 100 lb ax(yes one hundred pounds). When I asked what he would need that for, he said that he was going to use it in late at night, back wood, mock battles with his friends who had faux swords! I almost punched him, but instead just let that go and showed him the basic steps to making a small knife, then explained that making such an ax would cost at the very least $5,000 bucks, at least from me and even if dull would kill someone if you hit them with it, blunt force. That was that. That little experience also inspired the saying, "Even an idiot deserves a chance to learn", this is what I said to him as I handed him the hammer, not very nice, but I was making a VERY legitimate point in that moment(note: we were alone and he was at the time my sisters boy friend, now ex thank god).

On the boy girl issue. I have noticed that the girls who are interested(of which there are many) tend to ask significant questions and actually LISTEN to the answers. Where the boys tend to ask questions and then not listen to the answer very much(although this is not true for all of them) and the grown up ones, tend to make comments about how I am not holding the hammer right and it would be better if I did it this way. . .

Caleb Ramsby

Edited September 9, 2008 by Ramsberg

[ironrosefarms]

It was because of a patient smith at a reenactment pioneer village that took this young kid's comment of my great grandpa was a blacksmith with grace. He asked me what exactly he did, to which I answered I only know that he was the smith for a coal mine and a few stories related to me by my great grandma. He then said he was planning to work in the shop the next weekend and if I had an interest I was welcome to come by. I did and we then worked side by side for about 3 1/2 years.

I handle the questions in much the same way, though I don't often have the availability of a next weekend or anything of that nature. I have had some very good conversations with folks who remember a smith in their family and the work they did. I find that allowing people to reminisce about a fond memory is a great way to give me a chance to allow them to leave away from me with another fond memory of a smith in their life. For me, maybe they will someday be a customer, but that is not the important part... for them, to know someone took the time to recognize their story as important is worth more than anything I could forge in my coal fire.

James

[NateDJ]

OK, so I went to my first demo last weekend and had a great time. While I was there working the bellows my mom and dad stopped by to see what I was up to and my mom stands there for a few min with a slightly perplexed look on her face... then says this is what my grandpa used to do! LOL I almost lost it, I couldn't hardly keep from busting out laughing right there! She went on to describe the forge and how her and her sister used to sit and pump the bellows while he made stuff. I have never heard a word about this my entire life! I guess she didn't know what it was called. She told me that her grandpa, my great grandpa didn't believe there wan anything he couldn't make except for steel its self! ... I ask her if she still had any of his tools she might want to get rid of, and if so where she had hid them all these (35) years!

[Ramsberg]

Nate,

This is just what I was talking about. It appears that the sights, smells and sounds of a blacksmith shop brings up some long lost memories to some people.

What a great story of yours, there must be some magic entity in the air in a blacksmith shop. I can't see why so many people would lie about having a blacksmith in their family history. I can't recall many people having the same reaction about weavers. . .

Caleb

[ptree]

I often get the My grandpa was..., and try to remember that indeed many were. Last year I was doing a demo and a lady said just that, and I asked what kind of smith and so forth. She said Ohh he had a shop with lathes and other machines and it ran froma belt in the roof and it was still on the farm with those old rusty tools!!!! I asked politely if she was interested in selling and she asked did I want the whole farm and all, and that being rusty the tools were no good. She took my card and said she would go look and see about what was in the shop and call, but never did, and she was reluctant to give a phone:( From her description i feel certain it one time several lathes and mills belt driven and a full forge set up, and it was only about 40 miles from my shop:( I almost cry when I think about it.

I have a photo album with photos of my daughters forging at 8 to 16 years and show these to the interested girls, and indeed they do ask more and often better questions.
Oddly, when a show a split cross, and the blank, most guys(85%) can't figure out how, but about (65%) of the girls do figure out how, and in only a moment.

[ThomasPowers]

Since my hand crank blower is set back from the crowd I don't get many people touching it though I do get lots of offers to crank it for me. I explain that the blower is like the accelerator for a car and ask how they would react if on a trip I leaned over and asked if I could put my foot on the accelerator for them.

For my double lunged bellows pole it's often slung over the forge and nobody asks to pump it as my hand comes down near the fire; (but not close enough to curl the hair on the back of it).

Because of un-ruled kids I try to keep *all* of my tooling out of arms reach of the crowd ropes---don't forget to have a lower one for kids as well as the waist high one for adults.

[coltpax]

As with what ramsberg said, I was told in my psychology class that sound is the sense that brings back the most memories or something like that.

[Leland]

Okay, guys, here's a rejoinder to the comment, "My _______________ was a REAL blacksmith!"

Lean in close to the speaker, look left and right as though conspiring with him/her, and then (in a LOUD stage whisper), say "Yeah, ya gotta look out for those COUNTERFEIT blacksmiths...they're a bunch of FORGERS!"

The English majors in the crow will enjoy the joke :0)

Leland

[Walking Dog]

Instead of using ropes for my perimeter, I have lengths of hand-forged chain with decorative stands. It makes a good focal point for a conversation. Forging the chain also made many good demos, although I am now hesitant to do forge welding at a demo.

While blacksmiths are used to hearing about all the relatives that were "real" blacksmiths, the fur trade demonstrators are continually hearing about the relatives who were "Cherokee princesses."

Sometimes I can't help responding to the "grandpa who was a real blacksmith" with "my grandpa was a Cherokee princess."

[Finnr]

Walking Dog, The nice thing about Medieval demos is I never hear "My grandpa was a Viking".
Finnr

[Woody]

Some of you might find this helpful or perhaps a bit amusing

S0009 The Demonstration

[tribal forge]

I make a single rope fence to put around my forge when I am working doing demos, and believe it or not, I have much more trouble from Adults than I do the kids!!! The kids seem to know that the bright red rope, means stay back! The Adults now, I begin to think they are either brain dead, or just think they know all there is to know!
Like everyone else, I get the "Do you Shoe Horses?" all the time, I just tell them " No, I am a general Blacksmith, I make mostly camping equipment and a few knives!"
To the question "Is that Hot?" I like to keep a piece of iron near the coal and when they ask, I'll pick it up with my Tongs, and drop it in my Quinch tub!! The LOUD HISS and splatter of water answers for me! For Demos, I do alot of "S" Hooks(2 heats), coat hooks from a #15 horse shoe nail(No heats, I do these cold), also do Meat Skewers (about 6 heats, do 5 or 6 at a time)and steak turners(5 or 6 at a time), as they are fairly fast to do!! I also do orders while at these demos, and at times will have 20 or 30 people standing around ooohing and ahhhing! I set up mostly at POW-WOWs, and have a decent following! One of my best customers is a Flint knapper who has over the last couple of years, has bought probaly $500.00 worth of my camp gear, and we have also done a fair amount of trading too! Got my 3lb straight peen from him for a Squirrel roaster!/Selden

[Jorgensen]

also do Meat Skewers (about 6 heats, do 5 or 6 at a time

Maybe a doumb question, but since english isn

[Glenn]

A long thin rod to poke into through small pieces of meat, holding them together so they can be cooked over a grill. Many times vegetables are added between pieces of meat.

[Jorgensen]

Aha, "grillspett" in swedish if anyone is interested.....

[ThomasPowers]

A skewer is a smaller version of a spit used to roast meat, amazing the cognates between the languages!

I made a copy of the early medieval spit in the Lund museum; real WI and forge welding where it needed it, I did size it up a bit since the modern chicken is quite a bit larger than the medieval one...