Crowd Control

[primtechsmith]

It is getting close to time to begin the demonstrations at fairs, and shows. What are some tips you would give other smiths on how to protect the crowd from the demonstration.

How do you handle those questions that come up everytime. "do you shoe horses", "is that coal", or my favorite..."is that hot?"

For us the horse question was answered when we put a horseshoe with a line through it and the caption "We Don't Do Horses" under iton the demo trailer.....How do you handle these things?

Peyton

[bridgtonblacksmith]

Peyton,

I demo at 2 sites and they are at the far extremes from each other. The best location is at a Fairgrounds where we get to demo inside a shop. We usually get the "blacksmith's used to shoe horses" comments from the crowd, but, we quickly tell them the difference between farriery and blacksmithing. We also have a sign which is a silhoutte of a horse with a horseshoe on top of that with a circle and slash through that, but, som people still don't notice it. For keeping the crowd back, the shop has a 3' high 2X handrail along 2 walls of the shop. Under the rail is plexiglass so the kids can scooch down during a forge weld and stay safe AND still see what we are doing. It works very well. We ALSO get the comment of "my father/uncle/grandfather was a REAL blacksmith" which kind of urks us a bit, but, you have to shrug off the stupid comments.

The second place that I demo at is an old historical farmstead. Unfortunately, I get the SAME comments there, BUT, I don't have the luxury of having a handrail to keep everyone back. Also, when the restorers built the forge, they went AGAINST the recommendations of a couple of local smiths and built the forge left-handed. Now the flue is built so that the crowd can't see the fire. Naturally, they crowd around the backside of the anvil to see. When I take a piece from the fire I have to be very careful because I frequently have someone standing at my elbow. I have been making sure NOT to forge weld at this location because of the short range.

Paul

[Ralph]

Paul,
If I might comment about the 2nd place you demo.
Make some rope stantions and place them so you have working space. I volunteer at a National Historic site and we have it set up so that we have the stantions with rope barriers just to keep our visitors back ( in our case 10 feet back, but our shop is about 25 X 35 with 4 forges 2 each end )

[ThomasPowers]

With rope make sure you do at least two levels---adults and kids.

As for horse shoeing, I tell folks that while many blacksmiths in *America* were general smiths and did a bit of everything---we having more of a fronteir culture, (and 19th century and earlier blacksmith day books show them making and shoeing horses and oxen as well as all the other stuff they did. When you only had one smith in town they did everything!); in europe smithing and farrier work was quite seperate---different guilds and asking a smith in Europe to shoe your horse you were lucky if he only threw his hammer at you.

As for myself I just tell them that "Horses are *bigger* than I am and *dumber* than I am and that is just too scary a combination for me..."

I usually have some scrap pine around and if they ask "is that hot" I touch the wood and let them see the flames shoot up---and then say "no" it's down to about 1200 degF and time to reheat it.

Do you get burned "Yes I was cooking dinner the other night and..." "No, at the forge!" "Yes but I get burned worse and more often in the kitchen" and then talk about gloves and tongs and other PSG.

"My grandfather was a real smith"---"Want to sell any of his equipment to someone who will use it?"

Remember if you are demonstrating *DON'T EXPECT TO GET ANYTHING DONE!" you are there to educate/entertain not produce product. If you are expected to "serve two masters" at the same time we usually have a smith and a "talker" and the talker is the one who interacts with the crowd...


Thomas

[Glenn]

Make a rope holder to hold two strands of rope. This is to remind the public to keep at a safe distance. Someone will step over, under or around so be watchful and immediately stop all work till they return to a safe location.

As to the questions, you may have heard it 100 times today, but the person making the comment is usually honest in their question or comment. You need to treat the question politely and with a informative answer. To reply with a quick zinger does not benifit you or the craft. You can simply say that a farrier is a speciality in blacksmithing. Or that in their grandfathers or other relatives day, " blacksmithing was necessary to the rural style of living. Also explain that their grandfather did not own a cell phone, the same cell phone which many people can not live without today. Times change.

[Leah]

Primetechsmith,

When I get tired of hearing "My grandfather was a blacksmith", I usually smile and say something lilke "That is great", and listen if they want to talk a little. It helps me remember when Iwas the one standing on the other side of the rope asking the dumb questions. Had it not been for the patience shown to me that day, I might have not gone home and built my first forge.

I have to admit that, sometimes, I do ask them if their grandmother ever did any smithing :wink:

Just today at work, a fella came up to me and went into a loooooong tale about his grandfather being a blacksmith. I listened, and at the end of our conversation, he told me to come by and he would give me his grandfather's 250 lb. anvil because he had no one in his family that wanted it and he wanted it to go to a blacksmith. I don't know what brand it is or what kind of shape it is in, but I am going to go pick it up next week. I did ask him to write up a little information about his grandfather and what kind of work he did so I could keep the information with the anvil.

[Strine]

To the question about shoeing horses.

No. I only shoo flies. Or:

Yes but I would ask that you supply the stick.....shoo horse, get away with you.

Then wax lyrical about how complex the foot of a horse is and that no one in their right mind would let me near it. It is far better to take your horse to a professional horse chiropodist.

To the comment about an ancestor being a blacksmith, I reply with...mmmm, I come from a long line of chook (chicken) farmers dating from around 1740 (all lies of course). I still can't lay eggs.

Relish the bloke that fronts up, says nothing for quite a while then eventually pipes up and says "I was a blacksmith". That's time to down tools, pull up a couple of stumps and wag the chin (chat) for a while over a brew (cup of tea or coffee)...your shout of course.

[Strine]

To the person that whinges about the price of a trinket - offer them the DIY kit which from my experience should only cost a few pennies. When their eyes light up at the thought of a bargain hand over a piece of rusty old scrap iron.

On the same subject, some will ask how long this or that took to make thinking, I'm sure, they can haggle over the price. Tell them it took two years watching a master then another 4 years of practise to get it right.

If your happy with a price you've set, say $30 for argument's sake and they offer you $25 return the haggle with a price of $35. they'll offer $28, you quote $32. etc etc. Who ever said haggling was always to the advantage of the buyer.

Make a little three heat trinket and ask who'ld like to make an offer. I'm often surprised at the response.

In all these matters I have found it of great advantage to keep a smile on your face and have as much fun with (not at the expense of) your crowd of onlookers. Being a grumpy old smith is fine in the shop but doesn't go down too well in public. Someone might buy something just as a momento of the good time they had watching the blacksmith.

[Rantalin]

Strine, you say a "3 heat trinket", what would be something small and easy that could be made in three heats?

[Strine]

Rantlin you could try pot hanger hooks... just an "S" hook; small leaves don't take long: salt spoons from horseshoe nails (1 heat): hand made nails (1 or 2 heats): nail in hooks: simple sticking tommy? (single candle holder). That's half a dozen things which would fill in the morning assuming you intersperse your forging with some friendly exchange with the crowd and explanations of this or that.

What you found worked a treat last time may not this time "the Public" are a fickle unpredictable lot.

Have fun

[Rantalin]

Thanks Strine, I've made S hooks and small leaves. Actually made some small keychains that didn't come out very well, but practice makes perfect.

[Mr Smith]

When I get tired of hearing "My grandfather was a blacksmith", I usually smile and say something lilke "That is great", and listen if they want to talk a little. It helps me remember when Iwas the one standing on the other side of the rope asking the dumb questions. Had it not been for the patience shown to me that day, I might have not gone home and built my first forge.

Words of wisdom.

I've only done a few demos, usually with other smiths around. Trinkets that do well are spoons made from horseshoe nails, tiny horseshoes, and leaves. If you have a piece of paper with the trinket, explaining it (if possible) they tend to walk out the door a bit faster.

[julian]

I remember the demo that really got me into smithing..the blacksmith was a real nice fella, and I bought a small leaf keychain from him..today that leaf is still on the keychain next to one that i made .

Little things can really go a long way, eh?

[canuk]

i started out two years ago watching a pair of smiths at fair. they could tell i was so interested they let past the rope to try it out. the following summer i made a forge with my dad and this year im volunteering at the musem as blacksmith. if you want a beginner look no farther but the fact that those two smiths took time out to let me play and introduce something of such addicting protions is something i would like to give to some one in the future.

[rstegman]

One answer to how long it took to make it,

eight years and one hour.
Use your real experiance. in years.

When asked what that figure meant, say that it took you eight years to get to the point where it would only take you an hour to make it.

Another is "Any two year old can do this, with eight years experiance...."

[dablacksmith]

I get the "my dad was a blacksmith" all the time I decided that it is a way for people to talk to me so I ask where did he smith? what type of stuff did he make/repair? do you still have his tools?does anyone in the family have any interest in smithing? it is a way for people to interact with you ... And it may or may not generate sales but it has a better chance... as far as croud control i use a rope at about 30 inches high ya the kids can go under but they will anyway... and they(and theyre parents) know it is there for a reason .other than that keep your eyes open the fire draws people like moths to the flame! and remember that the job of a demo is to talk to people ! any forgeing you get done is iceing on the cake! i try to keep anything I make simple (long projects people wont stick around to see)nails and hooks and a occisonal anamal head (for the OOH factor) willkeep um interested.. the crowds are more interested in seeing hot steel than what it will become (tho they always ask) ..Ime about 2 weeks from hitting the road (getting the rv setup) and cant wait!

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

i think most questions have been answered but dose any one know how answer the question "do you shoue elephants?" followed quickly by his responce "i dod once the shoues are as big as your chest, see you dont know what your doing here." and he walked off

leaveing me compleatly confused
do they shoe elephants?
if they do how big are the shoes (weight and size)?
and is this question just a random occourance or has it happened before?

[dablacksmith]

never heard of shoeing elephants and never had anyone ask that... sounds like a wierd one... and ide answer it like I do horses ya i shoe horses ... SHOO SHOO GO AWAY HORSE!!! and i do flies also! as far as the " you dont know what your doing here " ide say if you think ime shoeing elephants then you are the one who dosnt know whats going on...

[Ten Hammers]

Just home from the first rondy of the year. Crowd control is not really tough most of the time. Like Glenn says sometimes stupid questions just need a little respect. I try and keep folks up to speed from the get go. They may walk up to camp asking what I'm cooking in the furnace. Wen I pull the pt out and pour a cup I tell them currently coffee and explain the job of the collier and why I now buy charcoal at the store. In the time it takes to do this a piece of 3/8 put in the fire is brought to forging temp and started ( maybe a hook start or finish ). When done forging I ask "is it still hot ? " Most say no and I then light a cigarette off of it. Having a 7 year old hold tongs on other side ( most times with Dad's help ) while I twist on this side is a treat. Makes kid feel like Superman. Of course you pick the kid wisely in this issue ( and notice I made no gender reference...I have 5 granddaughters and one grandson ). Letting Mrs consumer with the soft hands handle a piece that still has forge scale and then a piece that has been whitesmithed will sometimes clear up the issue of extra work and cost. One look at my hands and arms normally clears up any burn questions. I treat customers that want to buy a grate or something else for camp with the same respect I would if they were buying a new car or anything else. I just tell them to go up the line to 3rd or whatever camp and look my stuff over that has been used for a few years and ask around if they want to know about my work or me ( yes I'm growly if you play your guitar and sing loud after 10 in camp ). BTW a piece of really hot ( white ) steel in your hand will control an unruly crowd most times but you have to be careful.

[Daryl]

Here is what I have done when you have a troublesome child - this works particularly well when the parents are around and don't understand the gravity of shop dangers: Politely ask his/her name and where they are from, stand up and ponder for a moment, then "I remember your name, last week I was doing repairs on Santa's sleigh and he told me if was to see you before Christmas, you were to get this..." hand him/her a small lump of coal "This will save him the trip to your house."

Have done that several times and only once were the parents horrified -everyone else laughed uncontrollably. The little boy however, though this was the neatest thing on earth, stayed for another two hours - much, much better behaved.

There are many ways to prevent the crowd from getting too close. It is best to be cautious until you develop your own style.

[civilwarblacksmith]

I demonstrate at many different places. One place is the Union Mills homestead which is dated at 1797. The blacksmith shop there is my main shop where I smith at. The build ing That I'm in is over 200 years old. We use wooden stanchions with rope through it to hold the crowd back. The anvil at the smithy is roughly 10 to 12 ft back but not too far that the spectators can't see what is going on. I eventually want to build a railing in ther in order to be more sturdy.

The other demonstration area varies. I am also a Civil War re-enactor and it takes me to different places and different types of spectators. The set up stays the same generally. A 12 X 12 dining fly that has metal stanchions driven into the ground about 2-3 feet out from the edges of the fly.

With spectators that aren't blacksmiths, I won't forge weld when they are around.

Reb

The Civil War Blacksmith

[Gayle Brooks]

Good stuff guys.

I have noticed that the women seemed to be more open and interested mean while the men seem to spout out (most if the time talking a bit loud) of what they know, which isnt much by the end of the convo.

Maybe its me, or where I demo? Anyone else have similar experience?

[Donnie]

I've never done a demo at any type of event. But, the best crowd control around my little shop is to ask for help. They all back up FAST!

[ThomasPowers]

Tald, nope that's common in my experience too. In fact one of the things to learn is how to correct them without making them seem like an idiot in fron of their SO or kids.

One method is to say "That was a very commonly held belief; but modern research has shown that actually...."; or "That was very true with older low alloy shallow hardening steels; but in modern ones alloying and heat treat are used to counteract grain growth and so that does not help anymore."

[NateDJ]

This brings up a question of what you guys do when a beginner blacksmith comes up and wants to learn a few things?

As a beginner I would like to know what the best way to approach a demo so that I could actually see "The right way to do it" as apposed to the way I have envisioned it by reading trying it my self.

I usually try to keep the idea of the more I learn the more I realize I don't know and refrain from "Spouting off" ;)