Balancing weather vanes

["TJ"]

Hello, first time here. I sometimes have problems balancing unconventional metal weathervanes. eg. various ships, larger animal images..... weight and size varies some times, 5 lbs and plus. Although the wind sensitivity may be reduced due to increased weight, the balancing principal should still apply,,,, correct? - or why not?
Also, (from something I read on the web) please enlighten me, how can you have an unequal surface area (of the image) but balanced weight on the pivot piont? Regardless of material used, if the image is balanced, isn't there equal amounf of weight each side of the balance point regardless of the design?
I am including a link to some "working" Vanes
in order to explain "unconventional"
regards//tj

[HWooldridge]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a wind (or weather) vane supposed to be imbalanced so the wind always forces it in the correct direction - like a wind sock at an airport. I don't think you want it to be spinning, unless that is an intentional design characteristic, which would make it more of a decorative than functional item. Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying either way is right or wrong but it should be defined.

To answer your question, you can tack on a little weight to either side - in the form of washers or other devices such as lead tape. Although your vanes often have a bottom border to join the individual designs, you could also attach a piece of 3/8 pipe for the axle and cross piece (think "T"...) then add some lead to the lighter side. Simply clamp the vane axle in a vise in the horizontal position and observe which side needs the weight to balance.

BTW, you have a nice website and work displayed...

[unkle spike]

I would cut some round stock, and drill or punch to fit the main cross piece and add it to the end needing weight in the most un obtrusive way. If you did have an imbalance in weight, it would cause stresses on the pivot, and the vane would not swing around properly. I don't think it would have to be micro balanced, but should be pretty close.

The other thought if the upward shaft was not exactly plumb the heavy end would pivot to the "low" side. Depending on the offset in weight between the ends, it may not move in the wind....

Just my opinion, your results may vary....

[John B]

Wind vanes, preferably should be balanced,
No need for ball bearings or other engineered bearings, a forged/hardened point in a socket will work well for many, many years, this could be inside to fit inside the vane (If three dimensional), or into the support structure.
To assist balancing, forge a heavy arrowhead on the 'light' end, and always ensure the bulk of the vane is to the rear of the pivot axis.

[rockriver forge]

Hi TJ
I like your web sight, looks like you have fun doing what you do. Now about the weather vane. I personaly have not made one, but let's just look at the basics. Your grandfathers vane mounted ontop of the barn was more than likely an arrow. you had the point for the direction of the wind and the feathers (virtical) acting as the sail. The wind would push against the feathers from the side until the arrow was pointing into the wind. I'm thinking that you have 2 problems. 1st your balance point is going to be closer to the back end of the vain, I don't think that is bad. 2nd it looks like they are going tobe top heavy. So when you mount them on a rod you are going to have side friction from it wanting to filp down. One simple way is to put a counter balance on the frount, downside, close to your mounting rod. just for an example. You can think of ways to make it decrative. If you use a bearing I would use one like they use for the deck of a lawn mower, for the shaft. Graffite impregnated metal rings.
I hope I might have been a little help. Good luck!
Roger

[orgtwister]

i haven't made one in over 20 years but i made about 10or so back then in shop class and they were some what balanced but the tail was longer then the point so the point was made thicker then the tail to make up for the balance as for bearings in them i know 9 out of the ten i gave away are still working the 10th one got destroid in in a huricain in fl years ago the were were just over sized 1/2 hole in round stock that sat on a 1/2 rod with a taperd point

[David Einhorn]

Have you tried moving/adjusting where your pivot point is? Put a round bar on the table and set the weather vane on top of the round bar. Move the weather vane until it is balancing on the round bar. That is your balance point, and where you may want to attach your pivoting mechanism.

["TJ"]

Thank you all for your inputs. I should have explained the problem more in debth.
I have made numerous weathervanes (that's how i started my little business) using the methodes you suggests and they work fine. However, once in a while I design one that wont adhere to the rules?? Thus I'm starting to believe it is in the designs themselves although that should not matter if the balancing is done correctly,..I think.
I usually move the pivot point "slightly" ahead of the balance point and use mostly 7/16 rod for the stand with a ball bearing on top and 1/2" pipe for to fit over and to swing in. I believe like JB, that a point on the shaft would do nicely in most cases though. The 1/16 space difference btwn rod and pipe, is too sloppy and the weight of the vanes tend to make the heavy end of the vane tilt and possibly interfere with its operation thus, I weld a washer, with a 7/16th's hole, at the bottom of the pivot pipe, to compensate for the slack.
One thing I have not tried is to make the point larger and I will experiment with that.
Thanks again guys//tj

Edited February 8, 2009 by "TJ"

[Satman]

My father and I are meteorologist for years.  My dad was a meteorologist is the Army Air Corp. We used to build our own instruments. Not unlike the anemometer the Vane also Must Be Balanced for it to work correct. Think about it. If the instrument list to one side then when the wind stops blowing regardless of the last direction it came from the out of balance vane will turn to the down hill heavy direction.

Ambient.... balance your Vanes. It will stop requiring the instrument be so perfectly dead on level during installation.

Thanks for your attention as to this matter // Satman

[Frank Turley]

How do we construct the vane to point windward?

[Judson Yaggy]

Crazy old (for the internet) op

Center of mass above the pivot but larger surface area downwind.  Thicker smaller sections forward of the spike, thin but expansive bits toward the back end.  

Frank was probably making a point rather than asking a question but other folks might not get it so here is my simple answer.

[Frosty]

On 4/18/2016 at 2:04 PM, Satman said:

My father and I are meteorologist for years.  My dad was a meteorologist is the Army Air Corp. We used to build our own instruments. Not unlike the anemometer the Vane also Must Be Balanced for it to work correct. Think about it. If the instrument list to one side then when the wind stops blowing regardless of the last direction it came from the out of balance vane will turn to the down hill heavy direction.

Ambient.... balance your Vanes. It will stop requiring the instrument be so perfectly dead on level during installation.

Thanks for your attention as to this matter // Satman

Welcome aboard Satman, glad to have you. I'll forego my usual entreaty to put your location in the header and jump right into the getting to know you part. Are you taking up or thinking of taking up blacksmithing? This bunch of folk represent a seriously eclectic group and we need a weatherman. I know I'm more than a little interested in making weather type instruments though I haven't actually researched it. I'm not that interested.

The house could use a wind vane and I'd love an anemometer, F1 "hurricane" velocity winds aren't unusual here and we've seen gusts in excess of 140mph. An anemometer would be a cool thing. Still, I'd be happy with a good wind vane. A tough wind vane I should say.

Frosty The Lucky.

On 4/19/2016 at 4:17 PM, Frank Turley said:

How do we construct the vane to point windward?

Go to Army OCS?

Frosty The Lucky.

[ianinsa]

Frosty , this is a simple design easily found on the web as you have big winds you may wish to upscale and tie an anvil to the bottom of the rope

[Frank Turley]

The rope reminded me of a friend in Kansas. He said they tied a log chain on the gate post. When it's straight out, the wind's blowing.

[Frosty]

There are plenty of versions of the "rope" weather station. One of the more popular among tourists is the moose tail version. In the mid '70s when I first started working with the foundations drill crew we had a major project on the Copper River Highway, The Copper River Delta is famous for hurricane velocity winds as a matter of course. The first River crossing after you leave Cordova is at 13 mile where the river turns a hard left at a large stone bluff. The bridge's Cordova abutment is about 30' behind the stone face's down stream side. When you cross onto the unsheltered part of the bridge you drive into a cross wind that's usually in excess of 40mph.

The wind gauge the HIghways maint. guys hung from the bridge was a 4' length of RR rail on a chain. If there's a hard wind the dust is so dense you can't see the gauge but you can hear it banging against the bridge super structure. I've never seen it more than swinging violently but the guys had photos of it hanging horizontally.

I've been blown cross ways off the Copper River Highway through about 2' of wind packed snow in a blow. Radically violent weather but 27 mile, the Million Dollar Bridge is pretty neat place and sort of out of the wind. The wind blows past mostly about 1.2 miles in the direction of Miles glacier.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I prefer the weather rock

Tho an "Oklahoma weather chain" might be appropriate. 

[Frosty]

Oh the Copper River Delta doesn't enjoy those really FAST twirly winds, they just blow straight down the river gorge out of the Copper basin. I can see how having a weather chain to hold onto in one of your twisty wind storms would be a good thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Only probblem with those twisters, is after they have done their job of urban renewal in Moore the dump all the trash out by the airbase...

[Stitch]

I've made a couple of Blacksmith themed weathervanes. The 2nd one for my own shop has an anemometer I made from 2" stainless steel ladles. I made up a simple Delrin thrust bearing for the pivot so the anemometer would turn in the slightest breeze. I use the "two finger method" to find the balance point of the mass. I put two 5/16" ball bearings in the top tube so it can turn in any breeze easily.

Stitch

[ThomasPowers]

Very nice!  I don't think I could get away with that though as our spring winds are very strong, (we had 80 MPH straight line winds the first spring I was here and the joke is that you can tell it is spring in New Mexico when your neighbors' concrete blocks start blowing into your yard...)

Have you made any whirligigs with the blacksmith actually striking?  How did you get your anemometer to produce measurements? 

[Stitch]

Now that's windy!! I will be making a couple of Blacksmith themed whirligigs this winter. The anemometer on my weathervane is

just for the visual effect.

Take care all.