First projects

[Jobtiel1]

I almost always start a new project with the tooling for that project. I have a lot of eye drifts and slot punches for making axes. And only one square drift for example. I haven't done many projects yet where I need that. 

~Jobtiel

[JHCC]

This is excellent advice.

Let's say you want to make a hammer. Well, you're going to need to hold the blank, so you need a pair of tongs. If you don't have a pair of tongs, you need to make those, which means you'll need a punch for the rivet hole. You're going to need to punch and drift the hammer eye, so you'll need an eye punch and an eye drift. If you're going to fuller the hammer head, you'll need top and bottom fullers, which you can make using the eye punch and drift and the tongs. So, that's two punches, a drift, a pair of tongs, and a set of fullers, which is half a dozen tools before you get started on your hammer (this assumes that you're starting with a blank that's already cut to length).

Repeat the process with every project, and you will not only end up with all the tools you need, but with none of the tools that you don't.

[anvil]

Some great advice here!  You are well covered. Enjoy

[Goods]

One other note, if you need a 1/2” round hole. Don’t use a 1/2” punch. Unless your material is really thin the taper on the punch will end up making you hole too large. Punch small and drift to size. (Many of my drifts I use are also slightly upset to compensate for shrinkage as the forging cools…)

Keep it fun,

David

[Arkans]

Making my fire rake!

now I have my anvil stand made!

[anvil]

one step at a time.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Also some times two steps forward and one step back.

[Arkans]

I lerned a lot yesterday, one being rebar likes to twist at least the piece i was working does,,  and drwing out a large bar into a smaller bar can take a lot of time...

[lary]

I think rebar is hard to work with. Most of the time you don't know what it is made out of. I would guess that a lot of people have immediately given up smithing because they accidentally  started forging a piece of high carbon or unknown alloy.  Combine that with maybe not getting the steel hot enough to make a not so enjoyable experience. 

[anvil]

Steel has a natural propensity to twist. I was told if you support the ends of a 20' length of 1" square on the flat, the middle will be on the diamond. I remember trying it, and I think it did, but hey, that was a long time ago.

Experience means that when you are done, you will have less twist to remove,,, but there is always a bit of twist.

[Arkans]

Oh I am not giving up,,, just taking my time.  

[Frosty]

A lot if not most of stock's propensity to twist is because it's impossible for mere humans to strike perfectly parallel with the anvil face nor hold the piece perfectly flat on the face. With experience you start to compensate automatically so it's not so noticeable and easily corrected.

I only ever forge rebar for specific type projects, say spikes you don't want to pull out of the ground and rebar spikes driven into a hole with rolled Bondo in it makes cabin walls that will not shift. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Arkans]

Well drawing out a handle on the fire rake, my inexperience took most of my day last week, hopefully this weekend I can make a punch, fuller, and a set of wolf jaw tongs.  I have some sucker rod I can make the tools out of not sure which of my bars I have to make the tongs out of, but I will figure it out before the weekend.

[anvil]

This fine bit of trivia on steel wanting to twist came from Frank Turley. What you said about hammered steel is true as well and can be corrected quite a bit by experience.  A 20' length of 1" square is hot rolled, not hammered and to the best of a 30 year old memory, it was on the diamond in the middle. Check it out. I don't know why he specified 1".

The purpose  is to make people be aware of this and that it needs to be corrected before final assembly, no matter an "S" hook or a railing. When I do a railing, I first cut the pickets to length, then check for and remove twist. On a 30+" length of half square, there is always a little twist that needs to be removed. 

[Frosty]

I've never noticed a piece of out of the mill square stock with a twist that hadn't been man handled. Next time I buy stock I'll have to get the yard guy to lay a piece of 1" +/- on the ground and see. On the diamond in the center means the bar is twisted 90* in 20', right? That's only 4.5* per foot or 0.375* per inch making 11.25* twist over a 30" picket. 

Oh heck I can gauge that much twist and I have lots of square stock to check. Interesting, thanks for something new to try to figure out.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

You almost got it. If the yard guy will do it, support the two ends of the 20' length of 1" hot rolled on two saw horses. Then look at the middle and see if the center is on the diamond. I'm sure it was Turley who said this, and I can remember the bright beautiful day I tested it. Alas, that was '81 or so and I just don't remember the results. I suspect that if it had been contrary to what he said, I would have remembered that, so I'm assuming, because of that, it did end up on the diamond. Hope you give it a try. 

As far as twist in parent stock, I'ts just my shop practice to cut material to length, then check for twist. two pieces of 1" angle iron 4" long, my post vice and the mark one eyeball tells me where the twist is, then my scrolling wrench straightens it. Its a rare occasion to not have to remove twist and edgebend in stock that comes factory. My mark 1 eyeball is not good enough to see what I can see by adding two simple pieces of angle iron to site down. 

So you might try this as well. cut a 36" length of half square and clamp one end in your post vice. Leave the top flat a little high above your vice and put your two pieces of angle iron on top and close together. site down and the top edges will tell of twist. move the one angle outwards whilst sighting down and when the top edges are not parallel, that is where the twist begins. Mark with chalk and move the chalk mark to the edge of your post vice and use your twisting wrench to straighten. Then repeat til you are at the end of your piece. 

[Arkans]

I am going to have to take a picture of what I am talking about. This looks like I clamped this piece down and twisted with a twisting wrench..  looks quite pretty and graceful, but I did not have my vise set up yet and I didn't Twist it.

[Frosty]

Bridging 1" sq. HR 20' long puts stress on it. It'd be surprising if it didn't twist HR stock hasn't been annealed so it's reaction to bending moment won't be perfectly uniform. Just think how much it's been handled between mill and your shop. It shoots off the final straightening rolls at up to 200mph, depending on dimension (smaller the faster) and cools in reasonably uniform stacks. However it's taken off that rack and moved several times before it's weighed and banded for shipment. Then it rides rail cars to a yard or ship and lays on racks the terminal yard, until it's broken up into smaller bundles to be distributed by truck. Steel stock, even shapes are NOT babied, it's moved by forklift, crane and sling, etc. It's being work hardened the whole time but not uniformly. Seeing as it is square there are 4 faces for different hardnesses to effect over moment a leverage of 240:1, for 1" sq. It almost has to twist and it settles corner to corner because that is a square's strongest, most rigid structure. That twist is no more permanent than it's downward bow bridging across the horses.

IF on the other hand it has the twist laying on a flat surface supported evenly along it's  full length then it is a permanent feature. Simple stress relieving it could be all it takes for it to relax flat and true.

No steel you get from a yard is going to be straight, just laying on the racks will tweak it. The best bet you might get true stock is if it's delivered bundled from the mill.  Heck, one of the posts for my red iron steel shop was tweaked, I had to put the gozintas in the shop floor to work straightening it enough for the bolt plates to line up.

Determining where and how much stock is twisted is an easy mark one eyeball exercise. Cut 3 short pieces of angle iron that will rest securely on the stock and sand the scale off. Then put one at each end, matched to the same side. Place the 3rd one at different positions down the length and sight along the three. A laser pointer would be an easy test too. When my eyes were better I could locate deformations by sighting lengthwise down stock or the project. For a fabbed structure I relied on snap lines and steel tape measurements. 

It's funny I never thought about it other than just another step in construction like NEVER assuming a 20' stick really IS 20' long, they are all 20'+, into the late 70s they were closer to 21' long. I've been compensating for and correcting as delivered stock my whole life. Tacking up a trailer frame with a 12" crescent at hand was the norm. It makes me wonder how much I've been compensating for "mill twist" at the forge. 

Dang it Anvil, now I'm going to be gauging all my stock just to see! Simething to think about, thanks.  

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

Show a pic, that helps. Learning the basics is always hard, no matter what steel you use. There's little difference between a long drawn out experience in life, or drawing out a piece of steel. Same with an upsetting experience.   Usually the iron ones get solved easier,,,.  

Sounds like you are having fun with this, Frosty! Thats cool. 

[Arkans]

So here are the successful attempts and black smithing so far..

 

so one hot cut chisel, one hole punch, and one fire rake!   The fire rake I made from 3/4 inch round rebar...  you can see the twist in there. I made the hot cut and punch from sucker rod.

 

then I started on tongs, and the adventure began!!!!

So I bought some 1/2 inch round bar from Lowe's and quickly found out that this was not a good idea for tongs..  one the boss is too thin.  And my first attempt the Boss ripped apart around the river when I was working them lose.

 

my second attempt, I decided to draw out the reigns from some sucker rod, then cut out enough area for the boss and jaws, and form them so after drawing out the first reign I dropped  rod on accident it hit the anvil and broke off my work..

(yeah I quenched it so I could use it as a handle and draw out the other end for the other half.)

 

attempt number three, I was doing great and discovered I had some bad material.  I decided to use a piece of an old plow.  Was a bent piece of bar stock but in forging the jaws and boss I found several cracks in the steel, the more I forged, the more cracks I found...  

(This was ring at the beginning of the reins off the boss and looking along the reins I found more cracks and what looked like delamination.)

So at least for today, I am done...  tomorrow I think I am going to try the sucker rod again tomorrow.  I was wanting to make a few more tools from the sucker rod, but seriously I need tongs...  so nothing to do but try try again!

[M3F]

Arkans lookin good, keep on forging! It may have been said already but a good starting stock for tongs is 3/4" sq bar.

Also you mentioned you bought the steel at Lowes.  If you have a steel provider near you they may have a rack full of off-cuts and charge by the weight. I find I get alot more steel for alot less money that way. 

[Arkans]

Mostly i am trying to use the junk iron i have, I.E. sucker rod and such, i bought the two 1/2 bar sock bars cause it was the largest they had at my local Lowes thinking i could make a quick set of tongs to start with... Oh how I was wrong on that...  makes the boss to thin.. i guess i could have upset the area for the boss and jaws but honestly i just am trying to make a good set of Wolf jaws to get started with... Next Friday, i am going to go hit the local welding shops and local steel supply places...  see what i can find.  but tomorrow, i am going to have a set of tongs, i wont give up lol.....    once i get a set of those, i think i am going to look at the some tongs blanks that were recommended to by Twisted... but i do want to make my own and have that ability.

[anvil]

I make most of my tongs from 3/4" square stock. 

You are doing great! It's cool to watch your learning experience!  

[Arkans]

Success!  Yay I have made a pair of tongs!!!!

  I know, my river head is huge!!!  I realized they was a little longer than I needed , but honestly I was worn out and didn't care at that point, and I needed to finish,   But my first pair of tongs made from 1 inch sucker rod!  Now I am going to let those cool off, then wipe them down with linseed oil and eat a pickle...

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

By golly look, there be tongs, good job.