Too small of a spring?

[Will Brouwers]

Hello!

I bought this vise a while ago, along with my anvil. I am still trying to get it set up, but during my fiddling with it, I noticed that the spring doesn't push the leg out like it should, at all. I mocked this up and opened the vise as wide as it could go, and found that the spring doesn't even touch the other leg. I'm thinking this spring was not made for this vise. Any thoughts? Can I modify the spring, or would I be better off to start from scratch?

Will

[ThomasPowers]

Re-arc it.  OTOH how often do you use it outside of the current effective range?

[George N. M.]

The question is whether modifying the spring will improve the utility of the vise for you.  I VERY seldom have to open the jaws of my post vise that wide.  Also, at that position the jaws are not parallel (or even close) which makes it hard to firmly grip anything.  I'd say that it is seldom that I open the jaws wider than 1.5-2".

So, I would mount and use the vise and not attempt to modify or replace the spring unless it was a problem in use.

If you do decide to modify or replace the existing spring, yes, that is a doable project.  You can forge, harden and temper a new spring or find a replacement or modify the shape of the existing spring.  However, be aware that if the spring is holding back the movable jaw at full opening the force to close the jaw will increase as you close the jaws and might get uncomfortably strong when the jaws are close together which is where you will be doing most of your work.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

You can make a vise spring out of mild steel and it will work just fine. As a matter of fact I made one out of wrought iron and it works very well. and like Thomas and George N.M. said is not often you need the vise to open the full range of throw. One time I needed mine to open that wide I just pulled the moving jaw back after backing the screw out. If your vise won't open to around 2 inches then reshape the current spring some, till it does.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Will,

Take the spring out and re-arc it cold. It doesn't get that much movement, unless you need a bigger Vice.

Neil

[Daswulf]

The spring usually only needs to push the jaws open from closed. After that the weight of the jaw usually helps it unless the pivot joint is really tight. 

I agree with George, mount it and use it as is, then if it doesn't do the job you need it is pretty easy to re bend the spring or make a new one.  You don't have to harden and temper them but you could if you want. 

 

[anvil]

It looks like it is an original spring. If so it might be a "factory" heat treated spring. Spark test it, then what has already said. If you open up the spring, might as well go for a spring that works for fully opened.

[Will Brouwers]

Thanks for the replies. I still haven't got this thing fully mounted to it's portable stand, but whenever I tried to open the jaws, the spring wouldn't push them out. I only opened them all the way to show how small the spring seemed to me, but I also am still learning about blacksmithing in general. I thought about trying to re-arc it, but figured I should first see if it was even the correct spring to begin with. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

It looks like the correct spring to me. One thing to check is how the mounting bracket wedges and spring location might be adjusted to make the spring contact the moveable leg. Maybe pictures of that area may help.

[Anachronist58]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:49 PM, Will Brouwers said:

the spring doesn't even touch the other leg.

Mr. Will Brouwers, I concur with all of those who have chimed in here, and I have similar experience with post vise springs. Cold re-arc, do not expect the spring to do much more than to kick the jaw open. My spring has too much pressure at fully closed, and THAT annoys me.  Make sure that your bottom pivot on the movable jaw swings freely, as opposed to being stiff and gummy. Someone also mentioned that these vises are less than ideal at wide open:  Note that the bushing between the crank and the movable jaw is  Primitive, and time would be well spent in the study of it, because THAT is a significant limiting factor in the operation of these tools.  MINE is IDEAL at between zero and 1-¼" (4# hammer).  I can do a lot at 2-½" (2# hammer) after that, and from the beginning, it is the stationary jaw that we hammer against, by and large?

That is one good looking viSe, from where I sit. But the jaws and the krank handel tell the story, more pics?

Robert Taylor

 

 

[Will Brouwers]

That makes sense Anachronist. I did what others said and cold bent it a little, my poor mechanics vise on my makeshift work bench did well. I mocked up the bracket and tried it, still didn’t kick the leg out, so I put some shims between the spring and the moveable leg and that was more to my liking. I will definitely take the pin out and see if it is being gummed up there. (Figures that the moment I put a cotter pin in to keep the main pin in place is when I have to take the main pin out.) 

I also attached some pictures, including one that shows the U.S.L.H.S. stamped on the vise. A little research turned up the United States Lighthouse Service. I bought this in Muskegon, MI and I don’t think it is too far fetched to say that this vise was used in a machine shop connected to a lighthouse, or connected to a main shop supporting lighthouse maintenance. I don’t think it would have been forged by them though…

[pnut]

You only need a spring strong enough to make the jaw open when you unscrew it. You don't want to have to fight hard against the spring to screw the jaws shut. 

Pnut

[FatBadger]

I grabbed some snowmobile leaf spring and replaced what was a impromptu spring for my peter wright it works really well.  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:06 PM, Will Brouwers said:

shows the U.S.L.H.S. stamped on the vise

When I was in the U.S.C.G., stationed on the Lynde Point Light Station Old Saybrook CT., the old quarters had a full workshop in the basement. All of the equipment including an anvil & post vise were stamped the same U.S.L.H.S. The officer in charge was the last civilian lighthouse keeper in the service (he was in the light house service when it was incorporated into the U.S.C.G.). He was still there when I finished my tour in 1968.

[Will Brouwers]

Iron Dragon, that is so cool! After I found this stamp, I did a bit of research on the U.S.L.H.S. and found that some lighthouses would have a “mechanics shop.” This was probably part of one too. Is there anything else you can tell me about that shop you saw? I want to know more about my vise and the work it did. It would be really cool to know which shop it came out of, but I doubt I will be able to find that out.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The shop was in the basement of the original quarters. There were new quarters built and the old ones were razed, while I was stationed there. The shop had both metal and wood working tools to be used by the crew to maintain the light and equipment.  The equipment was removed and sent to the base at New London shortly after I arrived so I didn't get to use it much, the keeper Mr. Le Clerc would tell me about how the shop was used to maintain the inner and outer lights and he collected and repaired antique clocks so he used it for his workshop. Here is a link to the station, the first picture is how it was when I arrived there.

https://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=798

[Will Brouwers]

What a great read! Thank you so much! All of that was very, very interesting!