Christmas gift, Help!

[Jenn]

I am buying my S.O. the things needed to start forging as a Christmas present. I have bought a double burner forge and am now looking into hammers, tongs, and other supplies he will need. I am curious what things/brands did you personally feel were must haves and which were not worth buying. 

Thank you for your help.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Hello and welcome to ifi, 

I’d Look at kens custom iron for tongs, and you can find ball peen and cross peen hammers anywhere cheap including yard sales, 

sounds like he’s a lucky guy, nobody get me anything lol,

are you going to be joining him in starting the craft? If so you might look at getting some extras for yourself! 

[Jenn]

Yes, I do plan to tinker with it myself a bit once he gets the hang of it. I'm wracking my brain trying to determine which are best. I know you can find the hammers everywhere but I'm not sure which weight is best. And wood or fiberglass handles? And what kind and size of vise. Or which tongs? (I read about many types of jaws on tongs) My goal is to have everything he will need by Christmas and I don't want to leave anything essential or particularly useful out. 

[George N. M.]

Jenn, your significant other is a lucky man to have someone in his life who is this thoughtful.  Usually, a 2 pound head cross pein hammer is good for most work.  I use it about 80% of the time.  A cross pein is sometimes called and engineer's hammer and has a wedge shaped end opposite the hammer face with the edge of the wedge at 90 degrees to the handle.  Most smiths do not like fiberglass handles and feel that it is too rigid and promotes wrist and arm fatigue and injuries.

You haven't mentioned an anvil.  There are lots of threads here on IFI about improvised anvils.  You do NOT need a London pattern anvil (the kind that gets dropped on Wile E. Coyote).  Those have only been around a couple hundred years and smiths have been making things out of metal for much longer than that.  The London pattern is NOT the only "real" anvil.

The post vise is the best for a smith but anything solid will do for a beginner.  

Don't neglect Personal Protective Equipment, a leather apron, eye protection, ear protection (if he is going to be using loud power tools), and good leather gloves.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[bluerooster]

Must haves:  Forge, Anvil, Hammer, Brush (butchers block).  All else can be made with that.   Nice to have to start: tongs mabe 2  different jaw, Vise, (can be made but takes time, and various tools must be made as well). And an old farriers rasp.   As to what all for a complete smithy, I'll let others chime in here, as I'm a noobie myself. But I didn't have the benefit of an SO who wanted to buy me all that needed to start.   I had to learn by making what I needed to do the job I wanted to do.   I built my forge, My anvil is 109# chunk of scrap steel, My hammer is a 2# ballpeen, but I later got a 3# cross peen, and a couple sledges ranging from 4# to 10#. But my go to hammer is the 2# ball peen.  I also have a 16oz ball peen, and a 12oz cross peen body hammer.   I have various hardies, punches, slitters, and drifts, that I made as I needed them.

I do believe that others here will agree with me on this; No matter how well your shop is equipped, there will be a tool that you don't have, and must make for the task at hand.    I've spent the majority of my (short) forging career making tools, to use to make the tool that I need to do the job that I want to do.  But so far, I've had a most relaxing blast of a time, and turned out some nice things, and some pure disapointing junk.   

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Well  For blacksmithing I’d try an locate a post vise not a bench vise, they can be found both new from blacksmithing supply websites and they can be found used, 

the kens tongs I told you about have kits with multiple types of tongs, you have to put  them together yourself but you will get a lot of pairs of different ones for the same price you will pay for a single ready made pair, 

hammers I’d look for 2lb starting out and as y’all learn and get stronger then yall can easily an cheaply upgrade to heavier, 

I’m not an master smith or an old expert by any means, I’m sure others with more experience will chime in soon, 

but if y’all both plan to get into blacksmithing then I’d suggest reading the read this first thread on here and then update yalls location because there are 10s of thousands of smiths on here and y’all will be surprised how many are local to y’all, and they will be able to help y’all learn a lot as well as locate tools! 

[Scott NC]

  If he is interested in forging and such things, I sure hope he does not stumble onto this conversation!    I think a great gift would be to point him here at the right time.... 

[Goods]

Another gift that would be invaluable, would be a membership to your local ABANA affiliate, assuming you have one close by. When I first started, I hooked up with our Local IBA (Indiana Blacksmiths Association) chapter and that was the best step for me. You can read and watch YT, but having an experienced smith work with you and give advice at a hammer-in is the fastest way to get started and grow through some frustrating learning curves.

When we are meeting at our shop, it’s a 25min drive, in the winter months we meet at members personal forges which is any from a 5min walk to an hour drive, but the drive is well worth it! (Especially to see different smith’s setup’s.)

David

[George N. M.]

Don't forget one or more fashionable I Forge Iron tee shirts.

A membership in the local/regional blacksmithing group would be good too.  You haven't posted your location.  So, I can't suggest any group.  You can check the website of the Artist-Blacksmith Association of North America for their affiliates.

Also, for either you or him, there are some very good blacksmithing videos on youtube and there are also some BAD and dangerous ones too.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

PS If I were talking to him I would tell him that this plan of yours definitely demonstrates that you are a "keeper" and not to let you get away.

[dustyrode]

Some of these are repeats

1. Membership to the local blacksmith group. As stated above, check abana.org for a partner branch if you're in North America. This could be huge, and advance his and your skill and experience by YEARS versus wading through the process by trial and error alone. 

2. A Vevor cast steel anvil. Man, that's some bang for your buck on a good, usable tool. Human rights violations are a real concern when buying Chinese made, but that concentration camp labor does mean good prices for the starting smith. 

3. A vise. Man, you would not believe how much work is done in and with a vise. Of course a post vise is ideal, but even a smallish bench vise is a good start.

4. A pair or two of tongs. Ken's iron is a good way to go, or hunting at yard sales, flea markets, and estate sales is fun.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

No one has mentioned books. An old sage I knew had this advice for me. When starting a new venture (hobby/collecting) the first $1000 should be spent on books. Fortunately in our day & age there a lot of books free for the down load. This thread has a lot of them listed. http://www.bamsite.org/books/books.html

Also we have a thread here for recommended You Tube videos in this link. I especially enjoy those by jlpservicesinc (Jennifer) she rocks as a blacksmith. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/174-reference-materials/

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/54803-jlp-videos/

 

[Jenn]

 I'm taking notes and am glad to have advice. And some of my questions might be obvious or silly.  What are some good blacksmithing supply websites? 

What weight anvil did y'all start with?

7 hours ago, George N. M. said:

Most smiths do not like fiberglass handles and feel that it is too rigid and promotes wrist and arm fatigue and injuries.

Do you think wooden handles are best? Or leather wrapped?

7 hours ago, bluerooster said:

tongs mabe 2 different jaw

How do I choose which jaw?

7 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

the kens tongs I told you about have kits with multiple types of tongs, you have to put  them together yourself but you will get a lot of pairs of different ones for the same price you will pay for a single ready made pair, 

 

Are putting them together simple? 

6 hours ago, Nodebt said:

  If he is interested in forging and such things, I sure hope he does not stumble onto this conversation!    I think a great gift would be to point him here at the right time.... 

I doubt he will. At least I hope he doesn't.

And I will definitely show him this site.

6 hours ago, Goods said:

Another gift that would be invaluable, would be a membership to your local ABANA affiliate, assuming you have one close by. 

I will look into that tomorrow for sure. 

[Jenn]

7 hours ago, dustyrode said:

3. A vise. Man, you would not believe how much work is done in and with a vise. Of course a post vise is ideal, but even a smallish bench vise is a good start.

4. A pair or two of tongs. Ken's iron is a good way to go, or hunting at yard sales, flea markets, and estate sales is fun.

Do you have a suggestion on brands of vise that are good?

And what tongs do you use the most?

6 hours ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

No one has mentioned books. An old sage I knew had this advice for me. When starting a new venture (hobby/collecting) the first $1000 should be spent on books. Fortunately in our day & age there a lot of books free for the down load. This thread has a lot of them listed. http://www.bamsite.org/books/books.html

Also we have a thread here for recommended You Tube videos in this link. I especially enjoy those by jlpservicesinc (Jennifer) she rocks as a blacksmith. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/174-reference-materials/

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/54803-jlp-videos/

He's not really a reader but I am. I will make good use of those. Thank you. 

[Glenn]

Look at Holland anvils, and Jymm Hoffman anvils.  Both are members of the site and are extremely helpful. Tell them IForgeIron sent you.  Jymm also sells hammers.  

An anvil in the 100 to 150 pound range will do a lifetime of work.  If you find an anvil of 200 pounds at a good price, consider it but it is not necessary.  Heavier anvils are generally needed for some types of blacksmithing or industrial blacksmithing, due to the nature of that work.

There is an entire section of the site devoted to anvils.  For used anvils read  TPAAAT - Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique and the section on Improvised anvils. 

 

[dustyrode]

Outside of a decent post vise, no real brand preference here. I  probably use my wolf jaw tongs the most, but with some hassle I could make due. One of the easiest to make on your own, and I use them almost as much as wolf jaw tongs, is a pair of scrolling tongs. I could not make due without those, although in a bad pinch I might make a pair of needle nose pliers work for some jobs.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

4 hours ago, Jenn said:

Are putting them together simple? 

There’s lots of information on here an there are some instructional videos on YouTube to to walk y’all through it, 

[ThomasPowers]

Ok you seemed hung up on "best"; don't be.  It's skills that you need not fancy tooling!  Or as I say; "1000 hours working on a US$100 anvil will make you a better smith than 100 hours working on a US$1000 anvil."  If your SO had never driven a car would you be looking for a Maserati for them to learn to drive on? 

A lot of smithing tools are quite old, most postvises are over 100 years old and the brand is not as important as the condition of the screw and screwbox---everything else can be repaired fairly easily!  Blacksmithing is a craft where we don't consider an anvil *old* until it's 200+ years old.

I started with a US$1.50 hammer from a fleamarket; still using it 40 years on and have over 200 handled tools on the rack all bought used.  I've never held with the "ya gotta have a $200 custom made hammer to do good smithing!"  You want one---learn to make them!

As for tongs: it depends on what they will be doing. If you are learning to cook what pans you need sort of depends on if you will be a Baker or a Short Order cook, right?  Anyway to get started; tongs to hold 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" round, square and flat stock will generally help.

I advise a copy of "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" Alexander Weygers if you like the DIY from the ground up sort of things or perhaps "The Backyard Blacksmith" Lorelei Sims.  If they plan to go into bladesmithing "The Complete Bladesmith" Hrisoulas and  "Knifemaking 2.0" by Steve Sells will be great resources but not to start smithing with!

What may work well is to buy a few of the basics and then create an "allowance" to buy other items as found cheap or needed.  I once made a starter setup for under US$25: Forge, Blower, improvised Anvil,  basic tools; it was my favorite damascus billet welding forge for several years too!

[Les L]

Jenn,

Ken's Custom site has detailed videos that show how to assemble the tongs and they come with detailed instructions. You not only end up with good tongs, at a good price, but you also get a blacksmith class with them  and the satisfaction of completing them yourself. I bought a set when I first started, it is amazing seeing the difference in the quality of the finished product from the first set to the last set.

[Jenn]

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

Ok you seemed hung up on "best"; don't be.  It's skills that you need not fancy tooling!  Or as I say; "1000 hours working on a US$100 anvil will make you a better smith than 100 hours working on a US$1000 anvil."  If your SO had never driven a car would you be looking for a Maserati for them to learn to drive on? 

By best I don't mean most expensive. I mean most reliable and most useful, something that I won't have to replace anytime soon. Something that gets used often and doesn't frustrate you to use. 

The part you said about the screw and screwbox and tongs was very helpful.

I will definitely look for those books as well. 

6 hours ago, Glenn said:

Look at Holland anvils, and Jymm Hoffman anvils.  Both are members of the site and are extremely helpful. Tell them IForgeIron sent you.  Jymm also sells hammers.  

An anvil in the 100 to 150 pound range will do a lifetime of work.  If you find an anvil of 200 pounds at a good price, consider it but it is not necessary.  Heavier anvils are generally needed for some types of blacksmithing or industrial blacksmithing, due to the nature of that work.

Thank you. I was considering a 70lb anvil but worried it would be too small. 

5 hours ago, dustyrode said:

Outside of a decent post vise, no real brand preference here. I  probably use my wolf jaw tongs the most, but with some hassle I could make due. One of the easiest to make on your own, and I use them almost as much as wolf jaw tongs, is a pair of scrolling tongs. I could not make due without those, although in a bad pinch I might make a pair of needle nose pliers work for some jobs.

Thank you these notes are quickly helping me narrow down my options. There are soooooo many. 

1 hour ago, Les L said:

Jenn,

Ken's Custom site has detailed videos that show how to assemble the tongs and they come with detailed instructions. You not only end up with good tongs, at a good price, but you also get a blacksmith class with them  and the satisfaction of completing them yourself. I bought a set when I first started, it is amazing seeing the difference in the quality of the finished product from the first set to the last set.

That sounds great. He works much better with watching than he does reading so that will be good.

[ThomasPowers]

For someone starting out I would not go for a top end anvil.   I'd agree with a Vevor at around 110# as that's light enough to move and heavy enough to work on.  I teach at times and my travel anvils are 91# (A&H), 112# (PW) and 134# (HB).  My main shop anvils are 165# (HB & PW) with a couple of LARGE ones for when they are needed (469 Fisher and 4?? Trenton.)

Funny thing; it seems that owning and using an anvil will attract other anvils to you and where you might have started out in an anvil "desert" you will find good old anvils turning up in odd places...

[BillyBones]

8 hours ago, Jenn said:

And what tongs do you use the most?

That  depends on what the project is. You said you see all kinds of different jaw styles, that is for different things. Bladesmiths will use different style of tongs than an architectural smith would use. Also different sizes of the same tong, cant hold 1" stock very well with a set of tongs for 3/8" stock. So depending on what he wants to work on would dictate which to buy. I would also like to say that when i started i "thought" i wanted to be a bladesmith, did not take long to find out i really did not like making blades very much. So his direction could change. 

Kens Custom Iron sells a package of i think 5 sets for around $55 or so. I have never used them but i hear great things about them. I would think that that set would be a good beginner set. 

As far as vices, a good bench vice will serve. 4" - 5" jaws should be a good start. 

Some of these commercial sites mentioned, Ken's, Holland, etc. should have some kind of gift card or something. Maybe a few gift cards to these place and let your SO pick what he wants? If not listed on their site contact them, explain what you are wanting and i am sure they will do there utmost to help you out. 

And of course like NoDebt mentioned, direct him here. This place is a wealth of information and has advanced my skills light years compared to were i was before joining this site. The folks here have challenged me to reach out of my comfort zone and do what i at one time thought would never be in my skill set. 

A few things not mentioned, punches and chisels, fire brick, a pair of gloves, safety glasses, and a set of files. Punches and chisels any good set will do to start. Soft fire bricks to close up the forge, why run 2 burners if you only need 1? Gloves, well one glove for holding the punches and chisels. Safety glasses becuase we may have 2 eyes but only 1 set. Files a friend got me a cheap set off that place named after the S. American river they have preformed way above expectation even using on hot metal. 

May also want to scrounge some thrift stores for cheap work clothes, NO polyester, i have a huge scare on my leg from a pair of polyester work pants burning. Your SO will set himself on fire at some point, pretty sure we have all done it. 

Anyway, welcome aboard to both of you, stay safe and keep it fun. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

What about a smithing class?

My most used tongs are a pair of snub bitted short handled shoeing tongs I bought for used for US$1.50 several decades ago, they are sized for 1/4" thick flat steel, (square or strap).

[George N. M.]

To answer one specific question, wooden handled hammers.  There is some discussion about what wood is best but just about anything that comes with a wooden handle will do.  Leather wrapped gives too tight a grip.  You are often shifting your grip as you work, often between successive blows.

I agree with just about all of the comments.  Gift cards are good but don't have the impact of actual tools.  Maybe a mixture.

Sometimes you can get some good deals on tongs, etc. on ebay.

Even if your SO isn't a reader he may jump in on a topic that interests him.  Most blacksmithing books have lots of illustrations, particularly the Weygers book.  He was an artist besides a metal smith.  His illustrations are excellent.

BTW, you can tell what size of stock tongs are intended to hold by measuring the distance between the jaws when the jaws are parallel.

I wouldn't put a huge amount into this unless you are sure that you SO really wants to get into the craft and will stay with it.  Sometimes we are intrigued with something but once we get into it there is less fun that we thought there would be or it gets boring.

One comment about knife making if that is something that you think he is going to have an interest in, knife making involves less forging and heat treating of the blade than you would think and a LOT more bench work of grinding, polishing, filing, and making handles than you would think.  That is why I don't make knives all that often.  I would rather be hitting hot metal than grinding and polishing at the bench.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Another thing about tongs. Most are able to have the jaws adjusted, to take different sizes of stock. Just heat in the forge till bright red and put the stock in the jaws and tap them to fit better (simplified version).