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Does anyone here MIG weld with a pacemaker implanted?


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I am a very accomplished MIG 'booger' welder, looks like I used boogers to stick the steel together. But I make things and they stay stuck together.

My cardiologist dropped a jewel in my lap yesterday, said he wanted to implant a pacemaker. Until yesterday I knew nothing about pacemakers, so off to Google I went...Mayo and Johns Hopkins have some info about welding and pacemakers, but not a whole lot. A few other sites come up with a few comments about amps and twisting leads. On the bright side I can still gas weld...I guess that assumes I could gas weld before the pacemaker...

Anyone on here have a pacemaker and do MIG welding, if so what are your experiences and are you doing anything differently than pre- pacemaker?

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From being in the autobody business I know that Tig welding can damage electronics and it's why it is not recommended and discouraged for welding on cars. The resistance "spot" welders can do some damage with any electronics within a foot or so as well. Deffinately steer clear of induction heaters and forges as they even have a warning about pacemakers and metal implants. Sorry I'm not sure about mig welders. I'd deffinately look more into it if I were you. I dont think they do anything bad like other welders but I wouldnt risk your life on it saying it's ok because I've just never heard any warnings on that type of welder. 

Sorry to hear you'll need to get a pacemaker and wish and pray for the best for your health.

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I would strongly suggest you consult a cardiologist about welding and pacemakers.  A blacksmith forum is the last place you should seek advice on the subject, or any other forum for that matter.  The internet is not a reliable source of information either...lots of trash and bad advice out there.

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I also suggest you contact the MIG welder manufacturer.  Their should be pretty sensitive to that sort of liability concern.  Also, get the name of the pacemaker manufacturer from your cardiologist and contact them too.  It strikes me that there are enough folk with pacemakers and enough welders out there that if it were a common problem there would be a lot of information around.  That said, you don't want to be in the 2% where there are problems.

As Arkie said, this is a medical issue and you should get advice from medical experts and follow it.

It is possible that an old fashioned stick welder might not resent the same problem as a modern MIG or TIG machine does.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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Yes,

contact your cardiologist and also the welder manufacturer.

You might also consider checking out the "Underwrites Laboratory" yah the U.L. guys. (website or better yet their telephone ...)

Good luck with that.

The pacemaker manufacturer and seller (vendor), should, also, have the information that you seek.

I would ask my dear physician to save the box and its packaging of said pace maker in order to read the fine print.

If on the remote chance that the M.I.G. is pacemaker problematic and there is no warning then they would be liable, at least, in negligence.

That last scenario is exceedingly unlikely.

Hope this helps.

SLAG.

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I bought our Hobart MIG welder from a friend who had to have a pacemaker installed. No one told him not to use a welder and the first time he did he wound up in the ER because of using it. He was also advised then against using his plasma cutter for the same reason interference with pacemakers.

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Mr. I. Dragon,

Good evening.

I am not impressed with your friend's doctor. That lapse of professional conduct is most probably actionable,  (legalwise).

But your warning still stands.

Great information. Thanks,

SLAG.

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I got the consult your cardiologist; The internet is not a good source.  I sincerely thank all of you for your concern.

I have a call into the Dr. and welding/chain saw/lg power tool use is on the questions I need to ask list, along with the type/model he wants to implant. This was dropped in my lap yesterday, I have spent a good portion of today trying to find out what I can. I thought I would seek people that actually have a device implanted, so I came to the welding section of a website that usually has some pretty knowledgeable and helpful members. 

I specifically asked:

Anyone on here have a pacemaker and do MIG welding, if so what are your experiences and are you doing anything differently than pre- pacemaker?

If nobody with a pacemaker responds, then I guess I have an answer by exception.

Irondragon gave a part of a data point, I would ask what model Hobart welder, what amperage was he welding with?  I would also ask which pacemaker, but he is not the pacemaker user.

Thank you all for the concern.

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What Miller has to say:

Electric current flowing through any conductor causes localized electric and magnetic fields (EMF). The current from arc welding (and allied pro-cesses including spot welding, gouging, plasma arc cutting, and induction heating operations) creates an EMF field around the welding circuit. EMF fields can interfere with some medical implants, e.g. pace-makers. Protective measures for persons wearing medical implants have to be taken. For example, restrict access for passersby or con-duct individual risk assessment for welders. All welders should use the following procedures in order to minimize exposure to EMF fields from the welding circuit:1. Keep cables close together by twisting or taping them, or using a cable cover.2. Do not place your body between welding cables. Arrange cables to one side and away from the operator.3. Do not coil or drape cables around your body.4. Keep head and trunk as far away from the equipment in the welding circuit as possible.5. Connect work clamp to work piece as close to the weld as possible.6. Do not work next to, sit or lean on the welding power source.7. Do not weld whilst carrying the welding power source or wire feeder .About Implanted Medical Devices:Implanted Medical Device wearers should consult their doctor and the device manufacturer before performing or going near arc welding, spot welding, gouging, plasma arc cutting, or induction heating operations.If cleared by your doctor, then following the above procedures is recommended.

I will try to talk to a real person at Miller, once I find out what the Dr. wants to implant.

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5 hours ago, Daswulf said:

From being in the autobody business I know that Tig welding can damage electronics and it's why it is not recommended and discouraged for welding on cars.

The same goes for MIG, as long as the battery is connected (or if they forget a battery killer) things like PLC's and other control systems will be fried.

Stick welders also produce a field, you can check this by placing a very strong magnet next to where you want to weld. As soon as you strike an arc it will go very wonky, remove the magnet and the stick will start burning normally

All types of welders produce very strong magnetic fields, when I started as a welder I would have my mp3 player hanging around my neck. Lost about 2 of those before I got a Ipod with a metal casing (acted like a Faraday cage). That one lasted me till it just went "I am a Apple and will now no longer communicate with a windows pc". 

I did a quick google to see if there was some information available here in the Netherlands. Since we have a little bit different of a health system there is a lot of information provided by real doctors and medical facilities.

Safety requirements while welding: 

-make sure the welder is grounded and maintained

-Don't weld over 160A 

-Work on a dry place with dry gloves and shoes

-keep a distance of at least 60cm (2 ft+)between the arc and the pacemaker

-connect the ground as close to the welded area as possible

-Keep the wires for the welder as far as possible from the pacemaker, keep the welder itself at least 1,5 meter (5 ft) away from the workarea

-do not weld in a short repeating way. Keep a few seconds between each activation of the machine.

-stop welding if you feel dizzy and walk away if you feel lightheaded

-work on a stable surface, never on a ladder or in a enclosed area

-Never work alone

-Since all kinds of welding devices can interfere with a pacemaker , consult a medical specialist.

-No type of clothing provides any protection for the pacemaker

Also found some extra warnings.

-Do not use a chainsaw, they give of the same kind of fields that interfere with the pacemaker

If you do need to use a chainsaw:

-when using a electrical chainsaw keep 15cm (6 inch) between the motor and your pacemaker, make sure the saw in grounded

-when using a gasoline chainsaw, keep 30cm (1 ft) between the ignition and the pacemaker, also make the the spark plug is no where near the handle

- never touch any of the engine components while the saw is running

 

 

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Hey Rusty, I’ve had a pacemaker installed since 2014, and here’s what I would strongly recommend. First, check with the device manufacturer. Most have recommendations and guidelines regarding their respective devices, and what activities are safe to do, as well as identifying unsafe activities. In my case, the device is manufactured by Boston Scientific, and they publish recommendations on MIG, TIG, Stick and plasma cutting. If you do a search on a manufacturers name and welding, you’ll find them. This information could be very useful in any decision you get to make regarding which device manufacture to choose, assuming you get a choice. Second, talk with your cardiologist, but be aware that your cardiologist may be unfamiliar with with the device manufacturer’s recommendation regarding welding, so you may have to educate them. 

As for checking with the maker of your welder, I would not recommend that. I’ve found their advise to vary widely. They are simply not the best resource for information on cardiac pacemakers/ICD’s.

Also, I do weld within the constraints my device manufacturer has published.

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Diemos,

Thank you for searching, you are awesome. It seems like those are the same precautions I found, so those seem to be a good starting place. Once I know what device the Dr wants to implant I can get more device specific precautions. 

Paul,

Thank you, you are the experience I am looking for. Welding is not my life, but I do enjoy making things and repairing stuff around the farm. A chain saw is a very handy tool on a farm and pretty necessary when you heat with wood, I really don't want to give that up either, but need to figure out precautions to use it safely.

As soon as I talk to the Dr. I will be able to ask more informed questions, hopefully to the right people. The pacemaker was a complete surprise, he was ready to pop it in that afternoon.  In the past different Dr.s said I didn't need a device, but new Dr. seems to think it is a good idea because he sees something is getting worse.

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No problem Rusty, two heads know more then one. And if the info in multiple countries matches it is safe to say there must be some truth to it.

In theory a chainmail shirt should act like a faraday cage, as long as you ground it of course. Dr. Megavolt touches tesla coils while wearing a birdcage and a chainmail like suit.

Did some more research and I found some more information, apparently the biggest problem are the cables them self. No I know form my experience as a (somewhat) electrical engineer/mechanic that large diameter power cables (400VAC and higher) produce a field. Since the 24V control cables do not like that we keep them both separated in the wire ducts (which are made of steel , so again a Faraday cage) if you remove the divider plate in the cable duct (the one separating the power and control cables) you will notice tons of errors.

So in theory you should be safer if you shield and ground all cables for a welding machine. Will do some more research after dinner, else the wife will bust out her rolling pin.

 

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SHIRT not SHIFT; one key off typo; but at least it won't get me Moderated this time!

The size of the openings has a lot to do on if it will act as a Faraday cage at the frequencies used.  (Hence the size of the grid used in microwave doors.)    I cheerfully admit I can't do that sort of calculations anymore---if ever I could!

Must be a Friday!

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Depends, hot start is only available (to my knowledge) on welding inverters, not transformers. 

Continued my reading and found some more safety tips.

-Do not put the cables on your body (its a common thing to reduce the weight of the torch)

-Remove anything that can reflect light (if it reflects light (a form of radiation) it can increase the strength of the electro magnetic field). Painting the walls in green or blue helps for that.

 

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15 hours ago, SLAG said:

save the box and its packaging of said pace maker in order to read the fine print.

Also in case you need to return it, and they won't accept it unless it's in its original packaging.

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:wacko: That would be horrible to receive. Would make for a good prank.

I did find something neat, they make Faraday T-shirts. They are tested with MHz and the website has the test results public.

Welding equipment produces electro magnetic field between 0 and 100 KHz so it a loose mesh is enough to block the waves.

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You guys are great!

So to weld:

I need to find a chain mail shark diving suit, could I just wear a 1/2 inch piece of plate? Off to research...Does the shark suit need to be under water to work?

I need to paint my shop in blue and green camouflage, Energy reflecting is actually something I would not have thought about.

Save the box and receipt in case I don't like the 'Zap-O-Matic' 1000, and want to try the 'Bladder Emptier' 250 DELUXE...

Cannot use a stick welder, well I couldn't use a stick before, so will save my money on lessons, Good savings.

I will see what a Faraday  t shirt costs and how stylish it is. I cannot be seen in the shop not looking stylish!

Still waiting on Dr call back...

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Solid plate works best; but wears the worst. You also need to try to totally encase your torso; so think medieval armour---or a conductive T shirt rather than a plate hanging off your neck.

If the Dr or company has to guess and guessing wrong can lead to death and massive liability claims; they will tend to guess very conservatively!

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8 minutes ago, rustyanchor said:

Does the shark suit need to be under water to work?

Depends on whether it's salt water or fresh.

9 minutes ago, rustyanchor said:

I will see what a Faraday  t shirt costs and how stylish it is. I cannot be seen in the shop not looking stylish!

Depends on whether its natural fibers or synthetic.

10 minutes ago, rustyanchor said:

'Bladder Emptier' 250 DELUXE...

Once again, Depends.

 

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