Need help selecting an anvil

[Michael_Tricam]

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and blacksmithing as a whole. I have basically no experience but I am so excited to get started. I have been doing a lot of research on anvils but I am hesitant to pull the trigger on such a large purchase. To start off with, I am a buy nice, buy once type person so I am willing to spend some money for a nicer anvil. The majority of my research has been in anvils from the 100#-150# range. I seem to be drawn to the double horn style. I had been looking at the Kanca 110# double horn until I read the thread on here about them having soft faces. Right now I have been leaning toward the Hoffman 115# continental patter anvil. It seems like a very high quality anvil I would be very happy with. I am also considering Holland, Nimba, and Old World. Everything I had been looking at was new. Yesterday I came across a 395# used anvil that appears to be in decent condition but has some edge chipping with an asking price of $1600. Of course I would check it out for sway, cracks, ring, and rebound before making an offer, but It is a much lower price/lb than all of the others I am looking at. 

To start with I will be using it to make tools, pitons for rock climbing (not going to trust my life to anything I make until I know what I'm doing), kitchen knives, and I'm sure a lot of things I haven't thought of yet. So mostly smaller items but I would like the ability to make larger items in the future. 

So, my questions are. How much is all that extra weigh of the used anvil going to help me out? Is a new high quality but lighter anvil going to serve me better? Am I completely insane for even thinking about spending that much money with absolutely no experience? Should I just start with an anvil like object?

Any and all advice is appreciated. I know that I don't really know what I am talking about, so feel free to flame me for my ignorance. I just can't wait to get started and I'm glad I came across iforgeiron, it seems like such a great resource.

Also, anyone in Boise, ID reading this I would love to find some local people to learn from in the future.

Thanks in advance! 

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome aboard... As far as anvil size, it would depend upon your shop/work area and if you have to move the anvil around a lot. A 395 pounder is not the easiest to move. As far as working on it, I have found that it's easier to make small things on a large anvil than it is to make large things on a smaller anvil. Of course it's known that Blacksmith's suffer from anvil envy. A reasonably good size shop anvil is in the 150 pound range. Although I have done a lot of work on our 106 pound Hay Budden and 110 pound Vulcan and they both cost under $200 but for heavy hitting we have a 30 pound Star power hammer.

The $1600 for a 395 pound anvil in good shape, depending on the make is not bad. If it is a Soderfors, Hay Budden, Fisher, Mousehole or several others, I would be all over it. I must admit I would also try haggling the price down a little, simply because I enjoy haggling. Now if it is one of the lower quality anvils like Vulcan's the price is too high.

If it's in your price range and in good shape and you have room, I'd say go for it. If you decide you don't like the craft, you would have no trouble selling it.

[Michael_Tricam]

IFCW, Thank you for your reply. I don't have a large shop and I will need to move it out of the way from time to time. My plan was to put some drop down casters on the stand to aid in moving it when nessicary. 

I am hesitant to give too much info about the anvil and ruin my chances of negotiating a price for it, but I also don't want to buy a bad anvil. So, here are the two pictures I have of the anvil. Can anyone Identify this anvil and what are your thoughts about the edge chipping?

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Great looking anvil. The small edge chips are of no consequence. Not something that I would try and dress. The only thing it needs is hot steel being hammered on it to shine up the face. I have worked on an anvil like that and if I recall it weighed 225 pounds and was a joy to work steel on it. I'm sure someone will be able to put a maker on it. To me it looks like a Refflinghaus but I could be wrong.

[Frosty]

I don't see anything to warn  me off it for the price but I'd bring my 1/2" bearing balls and a small ball pein to make sure it hasn't been through a fire and been annealed or delaminations. 

I'm afraid drop down casters might not make it very portable, getting them to lift it clear of the floor won't be easy. A hand truck should be good if you aren't going far, get one with large foam filled tires, they roll over grit and gravel that stops casters dead. 

Too big? Maybe, it's large enough for a pro shop and strikers but it'd look darned good and be plenty any solo operation is capable of. 

You'd probably do perfectly fine with a 150-250 b. anvil in good condition but I'd be hard pressed to walk away from that beast if I could afford it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[localsmith]

The prices of the English and German pattern anvils is going to be exponentially higher than the type of anvil that they used for centuries and even thousands of years prior to their invention and creation. The one you posted a pic of appears to be a German pattern unless I'm mistaken. I often see sellers request along the lines of $4-$5 per pound for ones that look beat up which is absurd in my opinion. If you can get a good price on one and need double horns it's not a bad buy if it has decent rebound but it's still going to be way overpriced compared to the alternative anvil designs out there that are hundreds if not thousands of years old. 

[FlatLiner]

That's a good looking anvil. I wish I could find something similar down here in SLC, Utah.

[George N. M.]

It looks like a good anvil at a bit more the $4/lb. which is probably in the fair market value range.  However, you need to consider what you really need for the kind of work you think you are going to be doing.  Generally, 175-250 pounds is a good size for a one man shop doing up to medium sized work.  Anything larger is OK but it really is larger than you might need and with that large size comes the additional cost and the logistics of moving it around.  Even if it is just bringing it home and setting on its stand it is a considerable job.  And, this is my main point, for the same cost or less you could probably buy a very good, brand new anvil weighing around 200+ pounds.  I suggest that you check out new anvils before pulling the trigger.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

[pnut]

That's a lot of money to spend on a hobby you've never actually done before. It would be terrible to spend that much money and then realize it's not something you really enjoy and have to go through the trouble and time to recoup your investment. Blacksmithing is hard work and might not be everyone's cup of tea. My suggestion would be to find a class or a person you could maybe visit and get the feel for blacksmithing and if it's something you would want to continue doing. Short of that there's a world full of improvised anvils for free or close to it. 

I might be a lone voice in the wilderness but spending nearly two thousand dollars on a tool to use in a craft you may not enjoy seems crazy. Just my two cents. 

If you're absolutely certain about purchasing an anvil I'm partial to Holland Anvils. 

Pnut

[ThomasPowers]

I once got a 410# Trenton from a fellow who was tired of moving it as he was young and still in his wandering phase.  He wasn't smithing but "might" someday. I traded him a 125# Peter Wright, a postvise screw and screwbox and US$100 boot; so I had  about $200 in the deal.  Starting out; a 100# anvil will generally work fine.  A "real shop" is OK with a 150-175# anvil and over 200# were anvils usually used "industrially" with daylong use with strikers.

Now if I had a chance to pick that one up at a decent price and it passed the ball bearing and ring tests I'd jump on it! The upsetting block is a nice feature and it's a good design for ornamental work.

[BillyBones]

I am with P-nut on this. $1600 is a lot of money.

I would not be hesitant with info here either. There are a lot of people here who know a lot about anvils, i am not one of them, the more info you give to them the better they can determine if it is worth the money. 

[Michael_Tricam]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I know $1600 is a ton of money to spend on a new hobby. I was thinking I would spend $1000 or less which is still a lot, but I came across this one locally. I wish I had more information on the used one but all I have is the picture. Assuming the anvil checks out what is the most I should pay for it? Or, If I bumped the limit up to $1200 including shipping what new anvil would everyone recommend? I like the Holland and Hoffman anvils but they don't offer one in the 150-200# range. 

[Chelonian]

The Holland #125 or the smaller Hoffman would both be excellent anvils for most single-person work. If you're planning to work a lot with strikers, then you may need a larger anvil. Holland also does offer a 190lb in a London-ish pattern, but it costs $1200 before shipping. Their 140lb London pattern is another option.

[ThomasPowers]

A 125# anvil and then adding a "striking anvil", when you need to go large and use sledges, would make a nice shop setup.  (search on striking anvil for examples.)  I don't think any climbing equipment I know of can't be made on a 125# anvil.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

You can get an Anvil Brand Legend 120# anvil for $715, and JHM makes some good anvils.  I have one of their 125# Journeyman anvils that I got from a retired farrier. It is kind of a cross between a farrier pattern, and a smithing pattern in my eyes. I loaned it to a friend who used it to make "Damascus" billets for knives, and he remarked that it was a good anvil to work on. They are cast ductile iron, and the one I have still looks new.

As for size, everything I have done so far could have been done on the JHM easily, but my main anvil is a 260# Fisher. Why? A few reasons, but namely it was the one my Dad and I started with.  It is also very quiet to work on. My 306# Soderfors can be muted, and it is an excellent anvil that I had in my old business, but the memories with the Fisher put it on top for now. 

I understand the trepidation with the big expense. The best rule of thumb for that is , can you comfortably afford the purchase? If you have to choose what flavor Top Ramen you need to eat for the next year, or two to buy it, don't. 

Look through the improvised anvil thread. Depending on where you live you could probably be smithing by the end of the week on one that may have been free for the hauling.  A "REAL" anvil does not have to have a horn, nor a heel to work. All it needs to be is sufficient mass to back up the hammer blows, and be harder than yellow hot steel.  An improvised anvil, a JABOD forge, and a garage sale hammer will start you down the path of smithing for the cost of a tank of gas. 

 

[Frazer]

If it were my money (which it's not...) I would start by finding a big chunk of steel to hammer on. Take some small percentage of that $1200 and use it on other things you may need to get started. Fuel, hand tools, supplies for building a forge, etc. Put the rest in your preferred hidey (sp?) hole and add to it every once in a while. 

Take several months learning hammer control and basic techniques on your improvised anvil and keep an eye out for a suitable shop anvil (used or new). I spent my first 6-8 months working on some ~3" round chunk of hardened steel I found at the scrap yard. 

I beat the.. blank. out of that thing while I was learning, chipped the edges from mishits, the whole 9 yards. It would be a shame to spend $1200 on a nice shiny anvil and then ding it up doing what I imagine everyone does first starting out. Then if you decide you don't want to continue blacksmithing it'll be harder to sell all beaten up. Or if you get really good, those dings will always be there..

I'm a "get started for cheap and build up from there as I need things" sort of person so that's just my 2 cents. 

[Michael_Tricam]

Update: I did not buy the used anvil. The edge chipping seemed larger in person and the face was not all that flat. It just seemed like too much money for something I wasn't completely satisfied with. 

So, the search continues. I will continue doing research on new anvils, but in the meantime I think I will try to find a chunk of steel to use and get acquainted with the trade. I am blown away with the responses and the level of sincerity from everyone on this forum, this really is a great community. Thank you everyone!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Probably a wise decision. If you have a heavy equipment repair shop near you, check with them about a piece of steel they may part with. Bulldozers are made of anvils. We picked up this counter weight for $35 the weight is 110 pounds. I made a small bick for it and it is an excellent anvil for small work (knives & such). Would work great as a starter anvil that can take abuse.

[FlatLiner]

Holland has a 230 lb sawyer anvil for $1050.