tjdaggett Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Smiths, Good morning! I'm considering solving my chimney problem via avoidance and just moving the forge outside. Anvil, vise, table, bucket, etc. would remain in the shed; just the forge would be a few feet outside the door. I'm thinking either a 55 Forge w Turbocharger or a JABOD w chimney TBD. Thoughts? I know that I'm going to lose some heat and efficiency with the slightly greater distance between the forge and the anvil. The alternative is spending several hundred dollars on chimney materials, which isn't an option right now. I'm primarily thinking about how to make the forge last if it's going to sit outside in the MN winter, as well as how to keep it ready to roll with minimum snow removal. Thanks in advance for your logic and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Can you build a JABODish forge in a scrapped propane grill body no wood involved? Close the top at the end of the session and it will be fairly weather tight. Open it and build a fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Why lose some heat and efficiency with the slightly greater distance between the forge and the anvil? Move the anvil to be close to the forge. To make the forge last if it's going to sit outside in the MN winter, remove the ash and cover it with a tarp to help protect it from the water and moisture of the winter. You can make a second forge and store it inside, ready to be put into service when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdaggett Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 Salient point that I should have included in the original post: I intend to use this forge during the winter. I garden during the warmer months, so the plan is to make blacksmithing a winter hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Winter,,, Minnesota,,, outside,, hmmm. Your exhaust pipe doesn't need to be expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shed Forge Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I agree with anvil. I recently built a Uri Hofi-style coal forge for the inside of my shed. For the horizontal piece, I used a steel filing cabinet that I found through an online marketplace for 20 bucks. For the 12' of vertical chimney I bought 8 pieces of 6" x 36" black steel piping from Menards, connected them to form 12" diameter pipes and then stacked them. Total cost for all that was maybe 80 bucks, IIRC. Before I ventured to build it, I considered building an outside forge too, but the memory of harsh winters here ultimately deterred me. I am glad I went with this style. Although it took all day for 2 of us to gut the cabinet, put it back together, cut a hole in the side of the shed and make sure it is still structurally sound, connect the piping and stack and secure it, it was totally worth it. The cabinet was a bit wider than I would have preferred at 18", but it starts sucking with just one lit section of Farmer's Weekly Review. I use charcoal and I love how it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPaul Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I face a similar issue as I intend to be forging outdoors this winter up in Alberta. I've been looking for a broken down bbq that I can rebuild my JABOD in so I can close a lid on it. Anvil is right next to the forge at the moment to get hammering as soon as possible. We'll see how it goes in -40 degrees...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 "I can't move my arms" comes to mind (From the Christmas Story movie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Great visual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Don't forget to preheat the anvil! Also, if there is snow on the ground; a scrap piece of plywood to stand on helps keep your feet warmer! (My wife bought me 9 pairs of wool socks today...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdaggett Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 TP, sometimes I can't tell if you're serious. Is there risk of cracking the anvil if you bring 2000+ degree steel into contact with its -30 degree face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 No but the risk of breaking it when struck with a 4# hammer goes way up! Especially in the heel area. Also a cold anvil sucks heat from the workpiece; you want to get 1 blow before it goes cold or would you like to be able to hammer it a bunch of times? Besides which a nice warm anvil makes a good seat while you wait for the piece to come up to forging temp again! I generally use a slab of steel heated in the forge while the forge is coming up to heat. When I worked with the swordmaker we would have paint cans with a lot of holes in them full of burning kindling hanging on the horn and heel of the 400# anvil. A friend uses an electric iron, turns it on and sets it on the anvil when he enters the shop and he says it's ready when the first workpiece is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 My shop was at 9000' and not insulated. The only heat was my forge. My business was year around. The forge kept me plenty warm between it and the anvil. My morning routine(after the sun hit the shop) was to heat up a piece of half inch plate the length and width of the face of my anvil to a nice red or orange. I'd place it on the anvil, and turn it over once. If it was a day of forge welding, this was a must. If I was doing general forging, I generally wouldn't do this unless it was a particularly cold day. And then, for my benefit. I never considered the anvil breaking due to hammering cold, but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I warm my anvil if I'm working in the cold. I start off by lighting a hot fast fire in the barrel stove and lay the piece of 1.5" x 8" x 13" steel plate on the stove and go back in the house for another cup of coffee. Afterwards I check the plate, if it's not hot enough yet I toss more wood in the stove and have another cup of coffee. When it's too hot to touch I carry it (wearing thick welding gloves!) and lay it on the anvil I'm using. After I've laid out tools, picked up the mess, etc. and get the forge heated up the anvil is usually nice and warm. That darned piece of plate is still just as doggone heavy though! Warming the anvil makes a serious difference in how long the work stays hot enough to work. Not to mention being a good place to warm your hands up or sit. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPaul Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 So I went to add more dirt to my JABOD yesterday, move my bricks around and reposition things for tomorrow, and it was frozen already. I must have been quite a sight using a claw hammer to chip dirt away at both my forge and garden to get more dirt. I'll have to fashion a something or other to warm my sledge hammer anvil for the winter season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I have used a commercial heat gun to warm both anvils when it's pretty cold out. However we don't experience the same cold as folks in the northern latitudes. Zero degrees F is unusual here but I still warm the anvils so they don't draw the heat from the stock when starting to hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, JPaul said: I'll have to fashion a something or other to warm my sledge hammer anvil for the winter season. It's a sledge hammer head, let it curl up at your feet in bed, it'll be nice and warm then. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPaul Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) Until my wife's feet touches it..... Edited October 23, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Don't let it near her side of the bed or she'll never let you have it back! New guys, <SHEESH> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPaul Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 She might give it back this way....Depends on her mood I guess...one more reason to cut that handle off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 YES cut the handle off! Do I need to point out you should be a BIT concerned when she ties your feet to lumber that way? I don't even want to wear the candy manacles. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Fellow I knew in the TX panhandle broke the heel off his grandfather's anvil working it on a subzero day. I had a MatSci class where they discussed steel getting more brittle when cold. As I recall the example given was a liberty ship that broke in two while in a harbour with absolutely calm seas. Of course it was something like 40 deg (F or C) below zero...in Alaska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 A lot of Liberty ships broke, quality control was all but absent. I believe that one was in port in the north Atlantic but I could be wrong. -40c/f same same. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 One of the issues addressed in US Army cold weather training at Fort Richardson, AK is how brittle steel can get at sub-zero temperatures. You have to do lots of different kinds of pre-heating or retaining heat to avoid this. I wouldn't hit my anvil until it warmed up a bit if the initial temperature was below zero. One problem that I have had during the winter is going into a cold shop and turning on a heater until the air temperature is reasonable but the large iron objects in the shop are still cold. That causes any moisture in the air to condense out onto the objects and that can cause rust. I have had to dry off my anvil before using it. The problem is worse if you are using a propane forge or heater since H2O is one of the combustion products of propane. Also, propane bottles freeze up much sooner in cold weather. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 My anvil gathers rust every time the sun goes down. I have it in my vehicle. Everything metal gathers condensation after the heat of the day. I put an oily rag on the face of my anvil now. Pnut 15 hours ago, JPaul said: . I must have been quite a sight using a claw hammer to chip dirt away at both my forge and garden to get more dirt I had to use a wrecking bar and sledgehammer to break mine apart after about a year. It wasn't even frozen. Water didn't help either. It just rolled off. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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