671jungle Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 having a 3rd hand that can handle a beating is crucial. Since I am new to the fabrication world, instead of buying an antique (which would be super sweet!), I am going to build my own post vise. The plans are simple enough. Any advice from the Elders before I begin? I would also like to punch the holes for the screw instead of drilling. Speaking of screw, the one in the pic isn’t the chosen one. It is just a standard 1”. Will it work? And the tallest rail is about 21”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 How much experience do you have forging and welding on high carbon steels? (if you plan to use the rail.) Do you have a forge and tools suitable to work on stock that size? Do you have help?! The finer the thread the slower the vise. (But a slow vise is better than no vise.) Can you post the design or a link to it that you plan to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Interesting idea, but I"m guessing by the time you add up the consumables, utilities, materials, and your time (even at minimum wage) you will have enough into this project to pickup a good antique post vise. A quick check on Craig's list has one for $300 in your area (which seems very dear to me, but location does matter). Still bet you could bargain down to $250. Good luck whichever path you take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said: How much experience do you have forging and welding on high carbon steels? (if you plan to use the rail.) Not much! I intend on visiting some of the shops around here and make some friends. If help is scarce, I have a sledge and a couple of willing swingers. I can build a temporary forge for this project as it is the largest I will attempt for awhile. I do have some friends that weld although I don't think much welding is needed if i use the webbing as the pivot bracket. I will also build the tongs to handle the jaws for upsetting and forging. It looks like the screw and screwbox assembly on most antiques fits at the ends as an insert of some sort? Maybe a slotted rest? This is the basic plan for the most part. I am learning all along the way. All advice is welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 So you don't have much in the way of skills or tools for the project and you are choosing to do a pretty complex project to start out. For me this would be a blueprint for failure as I get frustrated trying to do stuff outside of my skills and I would expect to mess up several of them before I got one right. Generally I work up to such projects though a number of skill building projects that I can succeed with first. Also I would expect that the amount of time involved would pay for several postvises if you did odd jobs for minimum wage instead. I wish you luck on your project and would suggest you work with mild steel for your first one as it's easier to forge by hand and less picky about temperature ranges and oxidation. BTW is the focus of your interest blacksmithing; or building tools for blacksmithing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: So you don't have much in the way of skills or tools for the project and you are choosing to do a pretty complex project to start out. I do not. And I do agree, it is quite an advanced project. I am not in any rush and dont expect it to look pretty but it is important to me that i functions well. Im sure it'll take awhile till it takes form and maybe i will come across an antique in the meanwhile. I saw all the pieces sitting next to each other while daydreaming and thought they would work well. I also need a reliable vise. 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: BTW is the focus of your interest blacksmithing; or building tools for blacksmithing? A little of both at this point. Have not racked up the experience to know. I've always been a maker and making the tools to make other things is satisfying thus far. I dream of making rails and gates and things to take to BURNING MAN! lol I am currently reading this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I loaded 3 post vises in my little pickup today: 4", 4.5"---graciles and a 5" robustus. As a good vise is much more important for my smithing than having a london pattern anvil. (So even down here I had 2 solid mount and one portable. My main shop has 3 6ish" vises and 2 4ish" ones and I'm planning to mount another large one out in the driveway in a gozinta so I can run around it with a full 20' stick of steel.. Luckily I got into smithing before the bubble and in the blacksmith's happy hunting grounds. (I still remember a friend telling me to not pay US$25 for a good, complete 4" vise as "then he'd want $25 for all the rest of them!") I'd sure want a good 6" postvise to use if I was trying to build a 4" one! And a powerhammer or 3 or 4 friends I could train to be strikers. You know gates and railings could be excellent practice in punching and drifting....also to work large cross sections hot you probably want to invest in some H13 or S7 tooling. Anybody bring a forge to Burning Man? I don't go to many events where I don't bring one anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caotropheus Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 671jungle I know nothing about blacksmithing compared to the guys that posted their opinions above and believe me, they are a lot more knowledgeable than I am! Curiosity is a terrible thing that makes me invest a lot of time discovering the path of doing things instead of doing other things. Confusing, right? For example, instead of acquiring an anvil and invest my time forging and learn forging techniques, I just build my own anvils! I understand your drive to build your own post vice I encourage you to do it but make something simple to begin with, something you can disassemble and reuse later to improve your designs. There are examples for designs of leg vices in the internet and youtube has some videos. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/23269-building-a-post-vise/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFMtPY2MrYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwWUgSpUx5k&list=PLtkiEG92EzmUWsHUebljRYOP3UQwZadpi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKjddzGV-_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqqdPTemrrk You can find more example, some better than others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 19 hours ago, caotropheus said: I know nothing about blacksmithing I am in the beginning stages and still learning quite a bit of the basics, enjoying it all. I dont have much time and funds to learn in a proper shop with experienced smiths which would accelerate my learning curve. But I dont mind making mistakes, I've made a lot. Just dont want to make too big of one. I have learned a ton from this site over the last several months. Enough to confidently build an efficient enough forge and burner of various sizes. This project might stay in the corner until the opportune moment or it gets used as something else. 22 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: As a good vise is much more important for my smithing than having a london pattern anvil. I am now making punches and other striking tools but need a vise to hold the work. A vise is imperative to further my learning. I do have other materials to make a much simpler easier descent hold. I may resort to that. I saw the potential in the rails and know it is a simple design but a monster (fun) project. I lack the experience to take that on alone and blind. I will want to make one someday. Thanks for the advice on the the tool steels. It would be a dream to come across some S7! all the punches and cutters i have made so far have been made from strut springs and have held up nicely. I also have a couple bush hog blades that might make a nice durable hold using the forklift tine design. that seems a little more in my ballpark and my girlfriend (who aint no slouch) could help with the swinging. I have a giant brake drum that could be rigged as a vise to hold the tines for forging. lol, Im all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Good luck my friend I wish you success! Should this not work on first attempt I hope you learn the skills to succeed on the second attempt. Its all trial an error anyway. Make sure to write down what your doing and how your doing just incase you wanna repeat that in the next build or perhaps avoid that route. Always handy to keep a journal in anything you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 2:20 PM, Honey said: Good luck my friend Thank you. this site has done a good job at letting me know if something is in my range or not and has been extremely helpful in acquiring and fine tuning skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 So... kinda made a vise. Base: solid block of steel will be welded to square tube. Jaws: bush hog blades will be resting in groove cut into solid steel block. Maybe they should be more secure? Maybe secure the stationary jaw like in traditional postvises? They won’t have an over hang. I’m sure that need will surface at some point. The screw and screw box are from a overkill bar stool. I still need to figure out a handle. The screw can be replaced by any I guess. I put some metal in it and gave it a few whacks. Even though it is not glued together yet, it took the blows like a champ. a couple photos with different box configures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Still needs tweaking. Like some sort of jawing. And definitely a better handle. Gonna get it welded up in the next few days. Including the the jaws flush against the square tube, maybe just bolt it? And put a sleeve on whatever screw it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 I may just upset the end of the screw and punch a hole in it to accommodate the sliding handle. As for the jaws, maybe some angle iron fitted on both jaws to make the biting part. I dont want to add too much meat to the jaws. The workpiece should stay above the mass of the jaws as much as possible while providing a good bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Hi 671 I am not going to rain on your parade If you are willing to acept failure then My advise is to go for it the learning curve will be steep and the failure rate will be high but if no one was prepared to fail there would be no progress and its better to learn with some thing that once made and breaks nobody is likely to be hurt. Just do as much research as you can, look up uncle youtube etc look at forums there is usually more than one way to do things and some of them are just a more correct way. Enjoy your journey into the metal working abiss Cheers Beaver PS And remember you havent failed or made a mistake until you cant fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Rather than angle iron for jaws I think you'd do much better with steel bar mounted crosswise with a little overhang on each side. Drill and counter sink the vise jaws, drill and tap the existing sections to match. I'm not sure how many screws would be enough or perhaps pins to help keep them from shifting. I think something around 1 1/2" x 3/4" - 1" thick should do the trick. This would allow you to make different jaw. . . Bits(?): Flats perhaps checkered for general grip, vertical V groove for holding round or square stock vertical, horizontal V groove to hold horizontally AND so on. You could even counter sink both faces of the bits so you could flip them around doubling their uses. I'd definitely be looking for an Acme screw and box, standard screws won't survive too long. Just the grit in a blacksmith shop will wear them out fairly quickly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTMichaud Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Frosty said: Rather than angle iron for jaws I think you'd do much better with steel bar mounted crosswise with a little overhang on each side. Drill and counter sink the vise jaws, drill and tap the existing sections to match. I'm not sure how many screws would be enough or perhaps pins to help keep them from shifting. I think something around 1 1/2" x 3/4" - 1" thick should do the trick. This would allow you to make different jaw. . . Bits(?): Flats perhaps checkered for general grip, vertical V groove for holding round or square stock vertical, horizontal V groove to hold horizontally AND so on. You could even counter sink both faces of the bits so you could flip them around doubling their uses. I'd definitely be looking for an Acme screw and box, standard screws won't survive too long. Just the grit in a blacksmith shop will wear them out fairly quickly. Frosty The Lucky. Not a bad idea. Maybe he could weld on some more steel on the back sides to provide more holding area for the screws? Say some 1" tall by 1/2" thick? Just an idea. That way it should hold up better to the banging, not to mention any missed blows. IF he did that, he should do some deep penetrating welds to hold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 for the screw and nut, see if you can get a scaffold screw jack, maybe a different name where you are, but you can get them in 20, 25 mm, [3/4, 1''] sizes , and others, they come with a substantial nut, complete with wings that can be cut down and housed snugly in your mount post, you are on your way to a near indestructable vice then.[ unless you let my youngest son use it] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 5 hours ago, MrTMichaud said: That way it should hold up better to the banging, not to mention any missed blows. A shield to protect the back side of the threads is a darned good idea Mr. T. I think the existing . . . legs(?) of the vise are thick enough to hold bolts and bits but if they take a hit from a hammer we're talking a whole different thing. Good call. I don't know how well it'd work to weld on a bar but some kind of armoring is at least a must. I'll have to think on this one some. I'll be back, Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 Thank you all for the great tips and ad(vise)! what if we weld the angle iron to the ...legs(?) providing extra thickness and a shield? Then thread through both to mount the jaw bites? I appreciate all the input. Blacksmiths will rebuild the world. I am also wondering if the bend in the blades will be an issue. If they dont hold up it would be an easy change to truck leaf springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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