JPH

Front Yard FORGERY!

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Hello!  Here is the results of this last week's work out in my front yard.. Yeah I was busy committing  forgery...  All are hilted in my bovine ivory and have pattern welded blades in various patterns..All are a mix of 1095, L-6, 1070 and some meteoric iron thrown in for giggles... I hope these photos turn out...

Almost went blind setting in all those nassy little studs...

I have already started the next run of a half dozen  PW sgains..should be done tomorrow if all goes as expected..

These ones will be posted to my site this evening..

JPH

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Forgeries of the highest order. Kudos.

Pnut

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Oooooh the eye candy! The studs are just into the handle yes?

Thanks for the look at your SWEET forgeries. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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JHP,

Those are absolutely gorgeous "pig stickers".  Do you do your pattern welding with hand or power hammer?  Beautiful patterns.

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Hello:\

Frosty...yeah,,,these little terrors get a  3/64" dia  pilot hole drilled before they are hammered home...I break a lot of drills... I am getting pretty good with my foredom flex shaft though////

For the record I weld by hand, forge to shape by hand...I do alot by hand but Julius does get some time in on these...mostly heavy reduction work...

JPH

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Yeah, bone can be really grabby and tiny little drill bits are very vulnerable. I don't know how it'd be to gauge bits that small but they might not be so grabby if you sharpen to the same angles as for brass/bronze. 

Dad showed me how to kiss the edge of a freshly sharpened cutter to alter the angle(blunt) for copper alloys. If you sharpen them like you're drilling steel, copper alloys grab, bind and break your bits. He just blunted them slightly. Later I found out there is a proper angle but blunting SLIGHTLY works well.

Maybe the same trick will work in bone?

Frosty The Lucky.

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Great knives, looks like they were fun to make! And Frosty is helping, so you are good there as well. As for breaking bits, did you want additional advice? If so, how exactly are they breaking? What is your process, and what step in the process are breaking them? I am sure we can help refine your technique so you do not break as many.

I can only guess at possible problem areas:

Are you using a drill press, and if so, is the handle moving around as you drill?

Are you using the drill bit , or the foredom, to start the hole?

What speed are you drilling the bone at? High or low?

Drill bit brand?

 

 

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JPH, I've been looking for a copy of Modern Bladesmith. Great book. May have to break down and order it online. Oh well. 

Got a good look at the blades on a real monitor. Even more beautiful than I first thought. Tiny smartphones are not conducive to seeing the intricacies of PW steel.

Modern Bladesmith is still in print  isn't it?

Pnut

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You mean "The Complete Bladesmith"  (Followed by "The Master Bladesmith" and "The Pattern Welded Blade" and "The Book #4 we are waiting for")

You may be confusing it with Weygers "the Modern Blacksmith" (out as an omnibus edition called "the Complete Modern Blacksmith" now)

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Yeah you are right. I transposed complete and modern. I hadn't had enough coffee yet. Oops. Complete Bladesmith is the title I meant. That's what happens when you post too soon after waking up.

Pnut. 

By the way I seen a free PDF of this book and was wondering if it's licensed or not. I don't want to download it if you're not being compensated JPH.  I have to check when I get off work for the name of the site.

 

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hello:

That PDF is NOT legit. I have been running these down as fast as I can.. Copyright is still active and well..it's not authorized..

On the drill...the problem is the bone is not consistent,,there are hard spots..there are soft spots..and well..you hit a soft spot after a hard spot..the drill goes in..hits the tang and snap...hit a hard spot from a soft one..the drill jams...snap..  I get about 60 holes per drill..which comes out to about 2 grips worth...

JPH

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It's the collagen in the bone. When it gets hot it renders and mixes with the angular shattered calcium dust particles. This forms an asphalt that binds physically due to the sharp angular dust particles and is cemented by the cooling rendered collagen.

Keep the rpms high and feed slowly, floating dust is good but if it smells like burning bone back out and wipe the bit off. A little acetone on a rag will clear the bit.

Not a cure all but it should help. 60 holes per bit ain't a bad batting record though. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty!!   

I tell ya..bone is a great material to work with but it can sure try your patience.. Yet I do not understand why more makers don't use it... It is a gorgeous material when properly worked...

60ish holes per drill...especially with one so small is not all that bad really...when you come to think about it...this material is pretty much dried out and free of grease and oils due to the way I process it... but it can get under your skin as far as working it goes...but the way it turns out is 100% and then some worth it!!

 

As promised here are the sgains...there was 6 planned but I had a nasty inclusion in one so only 5 survived...

JPH

 

 

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15 hours ago, JPH said:

material is pretty much dried out and free of grease and oils due to the way I process it...

Do you boil bone? It's the best non chemical solvent method I know of for removing the collagen. 

I've only played with bone a couple times so don't have a valid opinion on using it. I'm NOT messing with ivory fossil or otherwise, too much a breathing hazard. Fossil bone on the other hand might be nice and any collagen would be long gone, bacteria LOVE collagen so it's gone in a century or so unless frozen.

More beautiful blades.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty..

Some of the material I have been using I imported from India two years ago..got 300 pound of the stuff.. It has been cleaned, dried, sanitized and bleached with industrial hydrogen peroxide..  The smaller pieces I process here by cooking it out with a little TSP and letting it simmer away for a few hours depending on the pieces..but not too long as the TSP can have nasty effects on the bone surface..after the cooking I do a hot water soak then I air dry.  Then I process it to get what I need....

JPH

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Having the collagen removed commercially makes it worth buying in lots. You get some exotic critter bone too don't you? I hear Giraffe leg is REALLY strong. 

TSP is pretty harsh. I've heard good things about a bare simmer with Dawn dishwashing soap. I haven't talked to one of my taxidermist friends in a while but getting bear skulls degreased is a job of work and it's not unheard of to soak them in acetone but I hear Dawn does it as well without the fumes.  Simmering bear skull smells like dinner. :)

I bet Kodiak brown bear leg would make good  strong handle scales. I wonder if any of the old gang are still doing taxidermy. Hmmmm.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I just happened to start rereading a book by a forensic pathologist about forensic pathology and guess what I see?

She de-greases shattered skulls for reconstruction in simmering / warm water with a little "Spic and Span". It's important to get as much of the collagen out of the bone or the glue won't hold well. Skulls are thin and don't have much surface for cement or glue to adhere even if the breaks key together well. 

"Spic and Span." I KNEW there was something better than Dawn dish soap that wasn't damaging if diluted but was drawing a blank. Funny thing, I was browsing through my pile of read books and this one sounded good, came back to it twice.

Brains are funny things eh? :huh:

Frosty The Lucky.

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Frosty, and all other I.F.I. folks (viewing this thread),

Laboratories, (crime, military, and civilian):  museums,  and commercial businesses that use bones, usually leave the job to Dermested beetles.

A well known beetle of the Dermested, family of bugs, is the carpet beetle.

They thrive on collagen, and other flesh constituents,  and completely clean up bones,  (skulls, etc.) in a matter of weeks.

Often, the bones are then whitened by using hydrogen peroxide. (H2O2).

Hard to believe. 

But check out the net for a company called Skulls Unlimited Inc. for vivid pictures and gripping repartee.

SLAG.

 

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Yup, Skulls Unlimited is where I take my llamas when they die during the Summer when it's too danged hot to grab a shovel and bury them.  They use the skeletons at the Veterinary Schools in their class work.  Good people at Skulls Unlimited.............but I can't stay there more than a half hour or I get sick to my stomach at the smell.  Can't imagine working there.  But you are right, SLAG, they bury the bones in soil filled with beetles and the little critters eat happily away.

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Mr. Curious,

The beetles must be used to the smell.

SLAG.

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As must the employees!  I'd hate to have someone in my home who worked there.  They leave there with the smell of death in their pores.  I've smelled enough of that in my lifetime.  Can't stay there longer than it takes to unload a llama.

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It smells like food to the beetles. They can't remove the collagen IN the bone where solvents will. 

Ever do the school experiment where you soak one bone in vinegar and another in I don't recall what solvent. In a week or however long, it was 4th grade I think the bone soaked in vinegar has the same shape but is soft and can be tied in knots even. The other bone is visibly porous, very brittle and can be crumbled in your hands.

These weren't leg bones but remembering the demonstration now makes me wonder if cleaning all the collagen from the bone is a good idea. I suppose a soak in epoxy would replace it nicely.

I've known a couple people who worked in the State crime lab's morgue when our buildings were close enough we'd play together ping pong during lunch. Funky smelling folk but so was walking down wind of the morgue. The new one was state of the art 20 years ago and not a wiff.

Frosty The Lucky.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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There was a TSP substitute at one of the paint shops I tried a couple of years ago when I was playing around with that gladius.  I wasn't thrilled enough with the sword to post the end result, but the chemical worked fairly well.  The one thing I hate about bone is the smell when you cut or drill it. Like burnt hair or fingernails times sixteen. 

Tried boiling alone too, but wasn't happy with the results. Too short, and it left greasy goop in the center. Even the ones that looked alright after leaked grease on a hot day. I dunno. I didn't stabilize any of it, it's all in GA in my storage unit with most of my other blacksmithing stuff. Should be interesting to see how the bones cleaned using different techniques held up and what's falling apart when I get down to get it.

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Oh what an attractive image. My bone knife handle leaks grease on hot days. Now there's something for a marketing genius to turn into a desirable feature.

Maybe I don't want to make bone anythings. Gotta try simmering in Spic and Span though if for nothing but another tool in my mental tool kit.

Frosty The Lucky.

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