KFatha Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Hello guys i want to have a Foundry with propane that can melt cast iron or steel. I thougt of buying a foundry like devil forge ones but i dont know if they are hot enough. Or how can i build it ? DO i need forced air burner? The molt what can i use for it. Normal green sand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Devil forge is not a foundry, and with the questions you are asking I am not sure its safe for you to build a foundry, Iron is not a starting place for casting. and furnaces are disposable items. Forced air is a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Listen to Steve Sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFatha Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 i already have one and im melting copper and aluiminium . Iuse charcoal right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Whatever steel you start with, the best you are going to come out with is poor quality cast iron. The only way to counteract this is to use a sealed crucible, and you probably aren't going to pour it into anything. Cast iron is no joke safety wise, it's an order of magnitude hotter than copper when the iron is at pouring temp, and tends to spatter when spilled. Steel would need to be poured somewhere around 3000F, so even hotter than you would pour cast iron. You will need some seriously upgraded safety gear. And, even though propane can get to cast iron temps, it's not the most efficient way to do it. You are going to go through a lot of propane for not a very large melt. Unless you want to make small amounts of crucible steel for whatever purpose, I would forget about casting steel in a home foundry. I'm willing to bet that almost all hobby foundries lack the necessary fine control and metallurgy requirements to get a known, useable steel. I'm positive I couldn't do it in mine. Steel is not practical or realistic for a home foundry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thematrixiam Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Theory side only. I am not going to do this. But could you take and melt mild steal and add carbon to it to turn it into a better quality steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Why do you assume that higher carbon means better quality? Using that thought, cast iron is a very high quality steel indeed! (Do you put gasoline in a diesel engine because it's "better quality"? More refined, higher octane,...) Yes; you can alloy your own steel; however there is a lot more to it than just adding carbon. For instance when you melt steel the melt will start to gain or lose various elements due to contact with the atmosphere, slag, refractories, etc. You may want to read up on folks making their own Wootz. A lower temp example is melting brass where the zinc starts to burn out of the melt at pouring temps and has to be restored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thematrixiam Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 I am sorry I assumed in the form of a question. I shall look up this Wootz you mention. It sounds very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 You may find this related topic interesting: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-know-nothing Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 If I was to rig up a manner to keep CO2 or Ar2 coverage over the crucible would I be able to manage to cast steel? put a lance on top of the crucible with a TIG or MIG flowmeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Are you going to seal the crucible or furnace to control the atmosphere? This would be a good time to look at a Youtube video not as a place to "research LOL " but as a way to observe the conditions into which you're proposing to squirt inert gas. CO2? Do you know what CO2 is, anything about it? Time to crack a book, I'd drop a hint but you REALLY need to get off the internet if you want a chance of pulling this off. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlacksmith Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I am brand new to blacksmith/forging. I came to this site during my research for how smelting works. Not that I plan on it, but was more interested in HOW it worked. Seems most of the 'experienced' responders are not very nice. The person asked a fairly straightforward set of questions. Many people responded with cynicism and replied with discouraging answers. - For the most part, experienced BlackSmiths have been very patient and kind when I ask silly questions, and have never been discouraging. I just presumed it would carry over to smelting/foundries.. Guess I was wrong. I work in support. I hope that if you ever call in and need help, you are not treated the same way for your ignorance and asking questions. Best of luck to you KFatha.... =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 With molten metal the chance of being seriously injured or maimed is pretty high if you don't do some real research. I didn't think anyone was being overly harsh. It's a GOOD idea to discourage people from doing things they obviously haven't researched that can get them hurt. Pnut 14 minutes ago, NewBlacksmith said: am brand new to blacksmith/forging. I came to this site during my research for how smelting works. Smelting is not the same as melting steel in a furnace for casting. Smelting is the making of steel from ore. Here's a link to a thread about smelting some crucible steel. Welcome aboard. We really only try to dissuade people from getting in over their heads and getting themselves hurt. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Welcome aboard Newblacksmith, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might have a chance to hook up with a member who lives within visiting distance. You'll learn more in an hour with an experienced smith than many times as the time trying to figure it out on your own. No experience smelting and you FEEL you're qualified to criticize those with experience eh? Kfartha was unsure what he was talking about, as explained I don't know how many hundreds of times already, smelting and melting are two different things. Smelting is refining a metal from ore and rarely if ever produces something useful for casting without further refinement. Melting produces liquid metal suitable for pouring casts. Very different process, equipment and danger level. Has YOUR "research" covered how dangerous molten metal is? I'm not talking oopsie I got a blister dangerous, I'm talking about hospital burn clinic, disfigurement, disability or death dangerous. A 10 lb. ladle of molten iron has the rough equivalent explosive energy of half a case of 40% dynamite. How do you cause that kind of abrupt energy release from a 10lb. ladle of molten iron? Spill it on an unprepared surface say bare concrete or damp soil. I've personally been splashed by molten aluminum in the above described situation once and another time when a class clown stuck a piece of aluminum in the crucible without pre-warming it to ensure it was dry. There are things in life that are just too dangerous to play nicey nicey games. What would you think of someone who tried to gently convince a child not to step out in front of traffic? If that child wouldn't listen? How about jerking him/er out of their Keds and giving them a swat on the bottom to set the lesson in their memory? There is a point in the real world where failing to talk straight or discourage the foolish is abusive. (I am NOT calling Kfartha foolish, do NOT claim I am!) He just doesn't know enough about melting metals to do it safely, if he lived close enough I'd pay to see he got lessons from a local bronze caster rather than see him take unnecessary, possibly lethal risks. In summary, to be less than firm in discouraging dangerous behavior is gross negligence. I'd much rather be able to like what I see in the mirror in the morning than not hurt someone's feelings. Welcome to the first reply to a snippy post of the morning Frosty. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I work in IT support; when we get people asking for the root/administer passwords for University computer labs so they can download some sketchy software they found on the internet we give them a firm NO! Our systems are under continuous attack---just had a phishing one in my department; foiled as the "fake email from the Departmental Chair" made a big point of his PhD---something our chair NEVER does. On the other hand I spent most of yesterday making sure that a grad student had access to a system that had the software they needed to work with. We tend to discourage dangerous computer use by inexpert users and support proper use by students with knowledge and a need. Much like here; except here messing up can destroy the person instead of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Newblacksmith: Most of the folk here are serious about responsibility to the craft and that includes safety. Not being very strong in warnings and discouraging very dangerous activity in a dereliction of our responsibility. Molten metal is an order of magnitude more dangerous than hot, plastic state metal that we all deal with. Real world experience is what needs to be relied upon, not research, not videos, not verbal instruction but actual hands on experience. If we are sometimes harsh or blunt and someone takes offense or is made to feel bad that is the acceptable cost of making sure that someone doesn't spend time in the hospital, have a permanent disfigurement or disability, or dies. Think about that, dead, and probably in a horrible and painful way. That is not a trivial outcome. With that kind of potential outcome it is not advisable to mince words or soften a statement. We want to encourage people to follow their interests but it has to be done in a way that is not too hazardous or dangerous. There is a reason that there are more hobby blacksmiths around than hobby metal foundries. The equipment and safety requirements to deal with liquid metal are much more formidable than just getting something hot and hitting it with a hammer. Finally, some of us have been around for a long time and have a lot of real world experience. Many newbies are young folk who have a "bulletproof" attitude and don't really believe that anything bad can happen to them. That is just the nature of being young. We were all there once and realize that we were all lucky to get through that period. So, our warnings and cautions tend to be pretty strong. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 So you have decided in your extensive experience that its not nice to tell a guy to not try to kill himself? I think you need to post at the embroidery site, not at a dangerous forum like this can be if you cant take the truth, because we wont be able to teach you anything. This isnt about your feelings its about facts. Metal does not care about your feelings, it will maim you and the people near you fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Some of use here consider it a miracle that we are still here; I figured I must have driven my Guardian Angel(s) to drink or drugs just to get me to my late 20's when I married and settled down. We are especially dubious of folks who do not do enough research to use the correct terms when asking questions about doing dangerous activities. I also worry about the liability aspects here in the USA. Last time I checked my homeowners policy; it REQUIRED me to sue any third party involved in an accident or they did not have to pay out on it. So people saying they would never sue if they did something stupid may change their mind when faced with a couple of hundred thousand in medical bills. Shoot here I am in my 60's and watching the scar from reaching too close to a junkyard dog form...Junkyard owner is *very* pleased that I didn't make a fuss---and I still am welcome to rummage the piles there. If someone just rubs you the wrong way you can check to see if IFI still has the "block me from seeing this person's content" feature. (I used it several site updates ago for 1 person, never had to try it again.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 10 hours ago, NewBlacksmith said: Guess I was wrong. If you read the replies, I think you will answer your own question/statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 TP reminds me of a story of a long gone member that got upset with the mods sending him warnings about his posting, so he blocked them. Eventually he got banned for not stopping the activities they tried to warn him about because he blocked the messages they were sending him. leaving staff no other alternative but to remove him from the site. so remember if you block a person you may miss a valuable post form them later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I have never blocked anyone. From Desiderata " listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 It seems to me that this whole thread got off on the wrong foot. Just my personal opinion, correct me if I'm wrong (won't be the first time...), but this is a blacksmithing forum, not a metal melting or smelting forum. I believe the posters looking for information on those topics picked the wrong forum and should have posed those questions on those related forums, not on a blacksmithing forum. Blacksmiths work metal, not melt or smelt it, as their primary occupation or hobby. Next thing you know, we'll have folks asking about brain surgery here and getting irritated because we can't or won't answer their questions like they would prefer! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Well this is the "Smelting, Melting, Foundry and Casting" sub forum which might lead folks to believe it is the place to discuss such things. I used to point folks to Alloy Avenue, used to be backyard metal casting, but they look to be shut down. Of course a lot of this was liability concerns as well as wanting people to talk with folks that are focused on molten metal and not just hot metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Whoever smelt it dealt it?! Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil K. Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 We needed a spot for Frosty to put his "Half a case of Dynamite" story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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