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Is this too small


Jimmies

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I'm just putting my first forge together and I have a couple of 7kg butane bottles. I've cut the top off and the inside diameter is 24cm. If I'm thinking of using 50mm ceramic blanket and a single burner, is the remaining space too small for anything useful once I get past my very beginner's stage?

Cheers

20180827_151258.jpg

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What size is the burner, and what volume can it reasonably heat? If you use 50mm of blanket (2" to we benighted heathens) and another 12 mm or so (½") of rigid refractory, that would give you an internal diameter of 11.6 cm (4½") and an internal cross-sectional area of 105.68 cm² (16-3/8"²). Multiply that cross section by the internal length to get the volume.

A 11.6 cm / 4½" internal diameter should be perfectly adequate for lots of smaller projects and basic knifemaking. As you progress to larger projects, you may find yourself needing a larger forge, but starting small is good.

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If the bottle is 31 cm deep and you leave the back open, that gives a working volume of 3,276.18 cm³ (200 inches³).  A 3/4" Frosty T-burner will heat up to 350 inches³, so if your burner is similar, you should be fine.

Now that that is all out of the way, welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!!

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Welcome Jimmies, Just add a 30lbs propane bottle forge to my tool yard because the 20lbs was not wide enough to take the slightly 'bigger' stuff (S-hocks, fire pokes, etc.)

You prepare a 15,5lbs propane bottle forge. Nice for nails, spikes, small knifes. But as already said all depends on the work pieces you want to forge now and in the nearly future.

Good luck & Cheers, Hans  

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If your internal volume is around 200 cubic inches, you'll probably want to drop down to a 1/2" diameter burner.  A 3/4" burner might be a little overpowered for that volume, which means wasting fuel and possibly not having the low end turndown temperatures available that you might want.

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I see a very high amount of combustion in the primary flame, with a minor secondary flame. But as you pointed out, it isn't mounted in a forge; when it is, I expect that secondary flame to be easily consumed. Is this flame perfect? No; but it is very far into the more than good enough zone :)

It was you that taught me not to let the desire for perfection interfere with what's practical; that is a highly practical flame. I predict it will end up heating a very successful forge. It is so slightly reducing that if you blinked you'd miss it.

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Thanks guys - The forge is being built and I hope to have that ready in a week or so....just waiting for parts

That vid was the first fire of the burner with the regulator only open a bit, when the regulator is fully open it really powers out. my regulator goes from 0.5 to 2bar and I'm using a needle valve up near the burner to try and control the flow of gas. I will get a psi gauge soon so I can get values for the output near the burner.

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It occurs to me that there is no reason you should see this flame as I do, Frosty, because you followed a different burner path to the expertise you have achieved. So, what do I see that you can't about this flame? If you look at the flame's forward edge, it doesn't form a point; instead it is blunted and has many points, somewhat like a brush or broom. This is one of the configurations I experienced in my early burners. The back edge of the flame, where it exits the nozzle, is clear; it has no white in it. If the flame color was completely blue, it would have shown total combustion; as it is, there is just the faintest hint of green, showing a slightly reducing flame; this is confirmed by the faint secondary flame, which is as ghostly as a tertiary flame; but in this case it only goes to show how minor the amount of fuel was that escaped combustion in the primary flame.

If the flame retention nozzle could be slid backward unto the mixing tube 1/8" more, the flame would probably burn perfectly; that isn't in the cards for a screw on nozzle. Nonetheless, I expect the forge heat to take care of such a minor problem.

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This is why having the experience of others is so useful...the only difference I am noticing is a longer flame

 

Is there a technical/in depth document or post I can read to understand what I'm looking for in a flame? Is this a fuel/air mixture issue or a design problem. The first clip was with the regulator near it's lowest setting (0.5 bar)

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you would be unlikely to see such a document because flames vary so much between different burner designs; there is no incentive to work that hard making a survey. Most people care about their own design and little else. The Burners 101 thread goes into what to look for in a flame, but the comments are scattered over 50 pages. 

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