machinisttalk Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Hello all, Wanted to share my first build with you guys so I can hopefully get it done in a good way the first time. I am still working on getting supplies together. I don't have a bunch of fab equipment, so I am trying to re-purpose this old stainless sink. I am looking to create a really basic forge so I can get to heating steel relatively quickly, both in the sense of a easy build, but also a build that is well insulated. One thing I am still thinking out is the angle of the burner. I know a 10/15 degree offset is recommended. I am going to try the Zoeller sidearm burner, which I know is rated for ~350cu/in, so I will work on get the insulation sized correctly. Any tips or critiques, please send them. Thanks, Mic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Have you read the Build a Gas Forge attachment at the Forge Supplies page on my web-site? as to the burner you need to use a Tweeko T tip, T stands for tapered. Let me know if I can help you. You can get my url and other contact info on my Profiles page. I prefer e-mails. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 3 hours ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith said: Have you read the Build a Gas Forge attachment at the Forge Supplies page on my web-site? as to the burner you need to use a Tweeko T tip, T stands for tapered. I have thank you for the free information. I did read about the tweco tapered contact tip. The post I read didn't make it seem critical, so I just purchased one I found locally. If that tapered design is critical though, I will get one ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Good Morning, You can turn a taper on what you have. The proof is in the pudding, try what you have, first. After things are running and working, turn the taper and see if there is/was a difference. It is not "Rocket Science". Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, swedefiddle said: It is not "Rocket Science Oh, I don't know. Gas jet dynamics, fluid inducers, combustion mixtures, flame front velocity... Sure sounds like rocket science to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Not really rocket science; just a lot of little details strung together Neil is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Any local welding supply store should have them in stock. I had a student that had built a burner using a standard mig tip and it did not work well. As soon as he replaced it with a T tip everything worked well. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Local guy only had the two you see in the picture unfortunately. I will test these first. If I need to Ill taper it down. He said he might start stocking the tapered style though haha, I'm not the only guy asking for them around here... One question this picture wants me to ask, how deep does the contact tip want to be? I will test once I get it lit, but just another variable you guys probably already know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 15 hours ago, swedefiddle said: It is not "Rocket Science". Not if you do it right it isn't. We try hard to prevent burner makers from being rocket men. It's a goal. The farther back from the throat, (the point the burner tube starts in the T) the more air it entrains and leaner it burns. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Larry Zoeller states on his website that his newer "Z" burners--which use a common pipe fitting--are hotter than his old modified side-arm burners. Yet I keep seeing the old burner with the hard to find fitting being attempted over and over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said: Larry Zoeller states on his website that his newer "Z" burners--which use a common pipe fitting--are hotter than his old modified side-arm burners. Yet I keep seeing the old burner with the hard to find fitting being attempted over and over... whoops. I am sure I will build both at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Think that's bad Mike? I keep seeing guys making versions of my first functional T, with the 1" tube, 1x1 T and lamp rod for the Jet fitting. I soooo wish that would just go away. Yeah I know I wrote up a how to but that was back in the Artmetal.list days because theforge list didn't support pictures. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 What magical property is it about outdated info? Like a swarm of nats at a picnic, it just won't go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I wish I knew so I could apply it to things that'd make money, BBQ ribs . . . something good. It's an iteration of the, Non-reciprocating Law.""Mention something bad and it happens immediately. Mention something good and it never happens." Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Websites need updating and indexing to guide people.... the sidearm burner had a parts list so I built it first. on a side note, I was looking at his air bottle burner, why use the pipe bushing instead of just a hole in the shell? related, is there some logic behind what size to make the rear port? Do you need a rear port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Take a 6' piece of 1/2" sq steel and heat the middle of it in that forge so you can bend it or twist it or punch it or... Make the rear port to fit the type of work you plan to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 It is no longer the ufo build. I got a 5 gallon air tank for the shell. I believe I am ready to start setting my blanket and rigidizing, which I have some questions about. (I swear on my mother I have tried to read to correct steps, Mike /Frosty have laid out in forges 101 and other threads, but the info is spread out all over the place and hard to follow, but here is what I think you guys recommend.) lay down 1" layer of blanket. mix colloidal silica with water and food coloring, spray on blanket to act as rigidzier. lay in 2nd layer, repeat step 2. on top of the last layer, add the 1/4" castable refractory (not refractory cement) on top of that layer add the kiln wash (plistix / itc-100 type products) Is that correct? If that is correct, can you please fill me in on the water mixture amounts for both the colloidal silica and Plistix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Close. I'd lose the fire brick and make the floor with ceramic blanked feathered at the walls. Butter the blanket with sprayed water before spritzing the rigidizer for a better coat and bond and lay 1/2" of castable refractory but you're on the right track. That IS just how I build them of course and not the only way. I feel STRONGLY about not using hard fire brick for the floor, it works but was a mistake when I did it. Thanks for the build pics, keep us posted please. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, Frosty said: Close. I'd lose the fire brick and make the floor with ceramic blanked feathered at the walls. Butter the blanket with sprayed water before spritzing the rigidizer for a better coat and bond and lay 1/2" of castable refractory but you're on the right track. That IS just how I build them of course and not the only way. I feel STRONGLY about not using hard fire brick for the floor, it works but was a mistake when I did it. Thanks for the build pics, keep us posted please. Frosty The Lucky. OK, I will add another layer of blanket for the base instead. I think I saw some thread where you mentioned a ratio mix for " mix colloidal silica with water " can you remind me, I can't find that thread. Or is there a consistency we're looking for? I haven't tried to mix it with water yet, it is such a light material should be interesting. Also is there a mix ratio / consistency for the plistix? Enjoy sharing, appreciate the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Mike is the guy who knows the colloidal (fumed) silica ratios and Wayne handles the Plistex. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Why guys keep wanting ratios is a mystery to me. Is the colloidal silica mixture too thick to apply with a spritzer nozzle? Then thin it by adding water. Is the mixture too thin to work adequately? Then add more fumed silica. This ain't rocket science. The colloidal mixture moves over the ceramic blanket automatically; it is very difficult to screw up. These guys need to stop making problems where there aren't any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 To be fair here, it is repeated over and over again to pick a set of designs and follow them exactly for those just starting out. I can see where a beginner might not be clear on which things we can use "Kentucky windage" and which things need to be as precise as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 You're right, and this is a case of Kentucky windage, or even whatever seems good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinisttalk Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 On 5/17/2018 at 12:34 AM, Mikey98118 said: Why guys keep wanting ratios is a mystery to me. Is the colloidal silica mixture too thick to apply with a spritzer nozzle? Then thin it by adding water. Is the mixture too thin to work adequately? Then add more fumed silica. This ain't rocket science. The colloidal mixture moves over the ceramic blanket automatically; it is very difficult to screw up. These guys need to stop making problems where there aren't any! Thanks for the input mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I was just talking about this with my wife this morning: how the "tinkering" that was common in the 50's and 60's seems to be dying off. Of course nowadays you can't change out tubes and components in your various systems and car repair is more a "hook it into the diagnostics and replace what it says" rather than fiddle with the timing and carburetor. People seem to think that there is one, *best*, answer to questions that may have many based on local environment variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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