Archie Zietman Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Hello. I'd just like to open up a discussion about blacksmithing and how it relates to art. Would you consider every blacksmith an artist? A craftsman? Is anything well made art? What is the role of practicality in artist blacksmithing? Those are just a few questions I've been thinking about lately, feel free to add some. Merry being, Archie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Some say you can't learn an art. Its is a skill that one just discovers and hones with use. People that have a bunch of funny letters after their names such as PHD and MA, etc can explain the difference between art and craft better than I can, but I think they would have an equally difficult time determining if a blacksmith's work is art or craft. I think it is a craft that many (but not all) can put an artistic flavor to. If a smith is primarily making and repairing tools and equipment, I would call it a craft. If he is primarily doing ornamental work it could be called art. On the other hand, being able to make a scroll with out a bending jig and have turn out looking concentric is an art in my book -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I Thought All Craftsmen Where Artist; Cause Each Good Craftsman Puts A Part Of Him-herself Into Their Work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 When complimented by being called an artist Sammuel Yellin would reply "I am a Blacksmith" There is an art to every subject but an artist may not necessarily have created it. You can quote me on this as it is my statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I would be willing to guess that you will get as many different opinions on this as there are people. I have been told I am an artist, well, I tend to think differently. Is it art? Does it serve a usefull function and if so can it still be called art? When I first started out blacksmithing I thought I had a definite idea what 'art' was and was not, now, well....I have read and studied about Samual Yellin and I believe what he did was ART, everything served a function whether it was a gate, railing, or letter box. Same with Francis Whitaker, making everyday pieces not only serve a purpose but be pleasing to the eye. There are tons of men and women today that are following this same path in their work. Webster defines art as '1. skill aquired by experience, study, or obsevation 2. a branch of learning 3. an occupation requiring knowledge or skill. 4. the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp. in the production of aesthetic objects.' an artist: '1 one who professes and practices an imaginative art. 2. a skilled performer. 3. one skilled or versed in learned arts. 4. one who is adept at deception.' and craft as: '1. skill in planning, making, or executing. 2. an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill.' and so on. Sorry about the rant. kinda got away there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 They are indistinguishable - see below nos. 1, 5, 9 and 12 under "Art" and 1, 2 and 9 under "Craft". Art; (ahrt) - Pronunciation[ahrt] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 this is a great subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my interpertation is a craftsman follows blueprints and instructions with a great deal of detail and integrity. and artist adds flair to projects such as an added scroll or a painted flower on the side essentially the artist lends nothing to add any practical value to the product but we all know how a well placed twist or turn or a well selected color scheme can add to any project. my opinoin only that and $1.09 and tax depends on where you live will buy a cup of coffee. as an added note , i always thought snap on tools were desighned by artist/ engineers for there pratical sense there ergernomics and in my eyes they are beautiful. chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Art Is The Part Of Craft That Can't Be Measured . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 On the other hand, being able to make a scroll with out a bending jig and have turn out looking concentric is an art in my book -Scott "an art" is a skill and different from "being art" which is a subjective description of an object. Whether or not something is a piece of "art" or is "artistic" depends solely on the observer's opinion, which goes to that quote about can't please all the people all the time. I have seen "art" displayed in museums, etc, that some people raved about, but to me it was ugly junk and a waste of materials. Good blacksmiths turn out work that is so well done that their "art" (skill) results in "art" (product). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Art is born from and evokes more emotion. Craft is more about skill and precision. I know this is a very simplistic view but I lack the ability to articulate this any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 well said pete and markb markb you are a good articulater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveh Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 i have always considered myself as a crafty kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynjr Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 At this point in my smithing journey I would consider myself an apprentice craftsman who may occassional turn out a piece with some artistic flair but my focus is gaining mastery of the craft. Once enough skill is gained then any artistry should flow out naturally as a component of that skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Art is a friend of Jackie.....had to do it sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Like the guy on Forge& Anvil said last night on tv. It don`t realy matter to me what it is , its the generation after this whos going to decidced what to cut and what to keep. Thats sorta my view on it . Also read a story about the master craftsmen awhile baCK , not sure where I read it but thats also about this topic Thanks,Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 The following is only my opinion. Gee, I guess it’s like saying what art is! I have seen where a member posts something like this for his mantra. “I have just as much fun as if I knew what I was doing” That is my point of view also. I feel that it is a valid point of view as long as the end product is safe. Art is when you see something that excites the creative awareness inside of you. I feel that each individual person defines what is considered "ART" from a personal point of view only! I believe craftsmanship is skill in action as well as an analysis of function and visual acceptance of an end product. Craftsmanship will be defined especially by the guy who is paying you to do the job. Then you will know for sure if you should re-consider what your definition of craftsmanship is. What constitutes Craftsmanship is also a measure (standard) defined by each individual. Both are defined in the eye (opinion) of the beholder until challenged by others. When the object you create is kept within your own domain, what you have defined as craftsmanship is dependent on your personal standard and opinion of what your ability is to create an end product. Once you expose your version of craftsmanship to the measure of other opinions, your measure of craftsmanship standards must then stand the rigors of others with different opinions, physical function, sets of standards set by others, and time. I feel Craftsmanship may be measured by opinions, skill, quality, time, and standards. Art is totally an independent measure. Do not let what I have said be confused with fact. Please remember that it is only my opinion! Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 are opinions a form of art ?, i know a lot of people say and think of very profound and curious things. and then there are the craftman such as george will that is a word smith uses the english dictionary to its fullest potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 It may have been St Francis who said the following in relation to the very interesting question that has been posed. "The man who works with his hands is a labourorer, the man who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman and the man who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist" Well even if it was not St Francis, whoever said it certainly knew what he was talking about. Kevan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 find out who said that, i knew this was going to be an excellant subject i love this kind of philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 "A man who works with his hands is a laborer. A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman. A man who works with his hands, his brain and his heart is an artist." By: Louis Nizer Source: The Great American Bathroom Book, 1992, page 3-A1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Glenn , you are a regular human encyclopedia of knowledege or you spend a lot of time reading bathroom material , which is it just having some fun you know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I dont know if blacksmithing is "ART" but it sells to regular folk so it probably isnt...Becides ifin ime an artist then my stuff wont go up in value until ime dead... And by then it wont matter ta me anyway!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 In the words of one of my teachers: THAT is a piece of iron......... I am art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Wow:cool: I believe everybody shined a lot of light on the topic. But Daryl ... that was so simple, and just about to good to be true. Short, sweet, and to the point. That is what I am going to tell my iron from now on! Quote from Daryl; "In the words of one of my teachers:THAT is a piece of iron......... I am art." Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 first i knew tgis was going to be a good post, thanks archie second who is your teacher daryl chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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