Steven Bronstein Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I have always wondered what the benefit of the traditional method of making tongs which creates the shoulders between the boss and the working end. There are currently available flat blanks that are used to make tongs. These do not create that shoulder but still seem to work very well. Does anyone know the rationale behind the more traditional method. The extra mass on the end of the tongs does not seem to help in their ridigity or function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Can you show an example of what you are talking about, my tongs from a wide range of times and places don't seem to have a shoulder like you describe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo313 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 By your mention of flat blanks, I came across many laser cut blanks. All of which required modification to work "just fine". And while I'm sure it's effective, they take something that's just a really pretty tool, like a well-executed gooseneck tong, and make it look like a paper cutout. Not my personal preference :/ Anyway... are we talking about a shoulder put in to offset the tong jaws so they line up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 For flat jaw tongs, one either fullers and twists the jaw or upsets it with half blows over the anvil, is this what you are talking about? Goose neck designers typicaly don’t set down to isolate the boss as do flat jaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 The tongs on the top show that the material is parallel above the hinge. The pair of tongs on the bottom have the shoulder just above the hinge. The instructions for forging tongs at a 45 over the edge of the anvil helps to create that 90 degree shoulder and I have never understood its purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 The first pair of tongs hold the work off the side of the reins, already off balance, and you have to adapt for that. The piece between the rivet and jaw aren't parallel - one is angled so it can line up with the lower jaw at the working bit. In that instance, flat stock cut out from a sheet will get the job done plenty fine. With the lower pic, the tongs are designed to hold the bar in line with the reins so you have good alignment and are able to rotate the hot steel with a simple turn of the wrist. In order to achieve that alignment, you have to offset the jaws so the work remains in line with the handles. Most people that I've met don't like using off-set tongs unless they have to, myself included. They can be handy, but aren't preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 That is a function of the job the tongs are designed to do and doesn't address the question of why tongs are traditionally made with the large off set shoulder when a short gooseneck that aligns the jaws to the reins will work equally well to balance the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Leverage, the shoulder type can offer an advantage for the same rein length due to being able to hold the work closer to the pivot. There may be other reasons but that's the obvious one to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Jaw width and alignment for flat jaw and other non goose neck designs. Buy doing it that way you have two identical halves and more meat in the pivot boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Bronstein Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 Is it then reasonable to think that if a gooseneck fits in with your usage there is no negative consequence to suggesting that beginners start with the simpler type of tongs. I see some beginners getting bogged down with the challenges of the traditional tong setup and they could get to work more quickly with the simpler tong making method. Also, they will be doing lighter work and may not need the mass required for power hammer forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 maybe it was the available stock at the time the rolling mills all produced round stock. So the style was developed out of practicality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Good Morning, I think what Steven is asking about, 'Why do you turn 45 degrees, on the far side of the Anvil, for the second step of making Tongs'. The reason is, so the base of the shorter jaws will clear the hinge boss of the other jaw, after they are riveted together. It is difficult to see all the strengths and weaknesses until you look at MANY TONGS. K.I.S.S. You don't have to make it difficult, but you have to learn where and why. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 7 hours ago, VaughnT said: The first pair of tongs hold the work off the side of the reins, already off balance, and you have to adapt for that. The piece between the rivet and jaw aren't parallel - one is angled so it can line up with the lower jaw at the working bit. In that instance, flat stock cut out from a sheet will get the job done plenty fine. With the lower pic, the tongs are designed to hold the bar in line with the reins so you have good alignment and are able to rotate the hot steel with a simple turn of the wrist. In order to achieve that alignment, you have to offset the jaws so the work remains in line with the handles. Most people that I've met don't like using off-set tongs unless they have to, myself included. They can be handy, but aren't preferred. Absolutely. It has to do with the geometry of the tong. When you close the jaws and exercise a reasonable amount of pressure, the tong jaws unless aligned, will tend to twist. A gooseneck offset jaw will flex and twist much more than a straight jaw forged to be in line with one another. i don't think I would want a tong with two dissimilar jaws like the one at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exo313 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 It helps me to look at tools that "aren't tongs." Linesman pliers are a really good example. Look at how they've been built so that the jaws and handles align perfectly. They look a lot like small, evolved flat jaw tongs to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 well Viking style tongs have been around longer than flat jaw tongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 And Roman or Egyptian styled tongs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Hammer Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I used one of the cut-out blanks to make a pair of scroll tongs. They look like any other set of tongs after I finished, just easier to create than the traditional method. I think there is value in learning the skills required to make tongs, and I hope to someday master that skill but for now the cut-out blanks are a way for me to make a good set of tongs which are a whole lot cheaper than buying new tongs and cost slightly more than buying used pairs for around $10 a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4/5/2018 at 10:34 PM, ThomasPowers said: And Roman or Egyptian styled tongs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 A late add. Doing them the traditional way, you can start off with heavier parent stock and get a more heavy duty tong. Of course, then forge the reins and working end down to what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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