Drifting a hole

[tompdw]

I was drifting a hole in a RR spike and my punch kept getting stuck. Is there any trick to keeping the punch from sticking in the hole? I am making a tomahawk. Here is some pictures of my first hawk. Crude but the tips helped. Thank you gentlemen. I'm not done with this one but I know how to improve on the next one.

[Jose Gomez]

cool your punch every 3 or 4 whacks, and when the hole starts to get deeper than about 1/4 inch put a pinch of fine coal dust in the hole to help lubricate the punch and make it pop out of the hole easier.

[Zsartell]

I have had luck with a slurry of graphite and dish soap as a lubricant. It's not a miracle worker, but it does help.

[hammerkid]

I also use coal dust

[Mills]

Keep it cool first and mostest. Second a lube. the best I have used is the ptree lube sold in the Iforgeiron store here. It is hands down better than anything else on the market or that you can concoct. and very cost effective.

I am wondering though which it is punching or drifting? The title says Drifting but you ask about sticking the punch.

[hammerkid]

So it works? I wondered how that stuff worked

[Glenn]

BP1022 Scale Lube
BP1023 Graphite-Moly Lube
BP1024 Wax Lube
BP1025 Salt Lube Edit
BP1035 Punching Holes with Moly-Graphite Lube

BP0503 Forging Lubricants
BP0503a Extended Forge Lubricant testing

And yes we do have the Ptree Lube for sale in the IForgeIron store.

[tompdw]

Punching I guess, I'm a newbe. I don't have coal dust. I use a propane forge.

[larrynjr]

I also turn the punch between strikes to keep it from sticking.

[Finnr]

I use cheap moly graphite grease from HF, stinks but works great. As said COOL !
Finnr

[pete46]

Like Larry Said ;turn The Punch, It Also Makes A Better More Evenly Punched Hole.

[jayco]

I try to keep my punches/drifts as smooth as possible on the taper( the part of the tool that is actually in contact with the hot iron).
A little 'ding', a hammer mark, or file/angle grinder marks all can catch in the hot metal, creating drag.

If there's a little rust on a punch I haven't used for a while, I'll twist the tapered end in a piece of sandpaper before I start.....just to shine it up.
It helps a little.......lubes help too.

Just punching a few holes will shine them and lessen resistance.

[mike-hr]

If your punch is made of mediocre steel, or if it's good steel and it got too hot and lost its temper, it may be mushrooming a bit in the bottom of the hole, creating a semi-mechanical lock. Most of my punches are made from sucker rod, which is tough, but doesn't harden real well. McraigL bought a stick of H-13 and shared half with me, that stuffs awesome. I'm slowly redoing all my punches with H-13 and really noticing the difference.

[Don A]

A lotta guys will try to finish the whole job in one go.

Hit it 3 of 4 good shots, pull the drift & cool it, repeat.

When your piece starts loosing heat, go back in the fire.

Remember, as you are driving, the piece is cooling. As it is cooling, it is contracting.

As you are driving, your drift is getting hot. As it gets hot, it is expanding.

You can't leave them mated for long or they will naturally stick. Use a cool punch on a hot piece and work quickly.

And to echo what Jayco said; if you buy one of these ductile iron tomahawk punches, a good smoothing with sand paper will help immensly.

My $.02

Don

[irnsrgn]

I stick my wet punch in coal dust after cooling and the fine dust sticks to it. as you don't have coal dust, try ordinary talcum powder to dip your wet cooled punch in.

3 hits on the punch and cool is my rule.

[skunkriv]

All good suggestions so far. Mine is to HIT IT...hard. Pecking away with light blows leads to more time in the hole and also will lead to the end of your punch upsetting and locking itself in the hole as mentioned above.

[Mills]

Now that there are some pictures, First it looks as if you were able to keep the hole reasonably centered. Good job, That is my main problem area. I'd say more power is the order of the day. Since you are new tho this doesn't mean to abandon reason, but hit it harder and faster the next time. how long or wide is the punch you used? or did you punch a hole then start drifting it open?

[habu68]

Francis Whitaker In the "blacksmiths cookbook" suggests slitting the piece from both sides with a slitting chisel, after marking the piece with a center punch for center and slit length. After the slit is through then follow with the drift. He gives a chart of slit lengths verses finished hole sizes. Coal dust and cooling still apply.

Dang I just Googled the Blacksmiths cookbook.
Used they are going for $650 to $1200, I may have to copy mine and sell it for a new anvil

Pierced Joinery

[tompdw]

I punched it with an undersized round punch first and then followed up with a chisel like punch that is about the same size as my handle. My steel is regular round stock from the junkyard (low carbon) I did make sure the punch was smooth and I dipped my second punch in some moly grease. It helped.

[skunkriv]

Dang I just Googled the Blacksmiths cookbook.
Used they are going for $650 to $1200, I may have to copy mine and sell it for a new anvil

Wow on that price. Mine is an autographed copy with his name and touchmark. Won't be selling it any time soon but again....WOW! Was fortunate to meet him twice and also have a couple of personal letters from him as well.

[MooseRidge]

My copy is signed with his mark as well.... NOT giving it up! ;-)

[Mills]

Tom that link habu posted is very good explanation of the slitting and drifting process. One thing to point out is that a slitting chisel should be flat not sharp. In my mind It is actually a very thin punch rather than a chisel. 1.4 is a good multiplier for length of a hole vs ending diameter. to do a 1" diameter hole than slit the steel 1.4" long. Pay attention to the part in the article about drilling holes or having your slitter rounded on the ends to avoid the thinning effect.
Go give er another whirl.

[Valentin]

Oh boy ..i am no good at drifting a hole . It had pased 3 or 4 days since i started to learn about drifting holes (with a press) and they just don't come out as it shod...I am not very far thow .Let me tell u what does not work ...so u won't try it (i learned the hard way). Never use the chisel(1st operation) on anything else than a flat surface.You will get the bar deformed and/or the machine stucked. (I am talking about 15x15mm square stock with 16x16mm square hole in it) .
1st test chisel 15mm wide chisel with a round face for the cutter , botom die square hole 16x16 ...chisel was pushed all the way thrue material + extra 5mm the result was machine stucked material deformed ...it got in the square hole
2nd test 15mm wide chisel with a round face for the cutter ,bottom die chiseled impression 2mm deep ...chisel was pushed all the way thrue material + extra 1mm the result was machine stucked material deformed ...it got in the chisel impresion
3rd test Flat botom die chiseld punched just to kiss the botom die.The resut was machine not stucked and the cut not all the way in material caz the chisel had a roundet face like this '')'' ...so i had also turned the stock around and cut from the other side to.When i used the drift(16x16mm) botom die square hole (16x16mm) result was material got in the hole+ machine stucked + stock cuted in 2 peaces
I bet you are wondering how many more trials have i done ...well about 6...8 of them diferent configuration so my conclusion now ...
Oh boy how silly can i be ...and the second conclusion...
wider chisel i made 17mm and flat cutter''|" instead of roundet as it was before'')''. I did not tried it yet I'll come back with pictures and more tests tomorow just to show u how wrong can it go when it goes wrong.Everybody is presenting how to do things blueprints and schetches ...Well i can sure show u how not to

P.S. seems that the cutter size needs to be 1.4 times bigger than the diameter and with roundet edges... I'll make the modifications (tanks Mills )...and keep the smile on my face

[Mills]

I feel your pain Valentin. I need to make some hammers out of 1 1/2 " ~75mm round stock. It will be a real experience.

[Shane Stegmeier]

Thinner punches heat up faster!!! For punching a hole in a railroad spike I would cool after EVERY hit, hit hard and work fast, and use the best lube you can lay your hands on... Slitting the hole in the shank of the spike is the best way to go since it will leave the most stock still around the eye. After it is slit you can open it up and drift it to shape without thinning the stock too much. The ductile iron tomahawk drifts are really only for doing the final sizing in my opinion, and should be sanded and smoothed and lubed up.

On a more general note I either leave the tool on the steel too long like when I am doing splitwork and slitting off leaves and curls, or I try to keep to tool cool and don't hit more than once or twice. Better steels really do help, I use a lot of S7 and H13 for tooling that I make and it works real nice, and you can abuse it. You can use mild steel and even wrought, but you need to have very good form and be dilligent about keeping the steel hot and the punch cool... Have fun, use what you have, and upgrade when you get the opportunity. Hopefully God will bless you with an abundance of tool steel;-)