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What should i be paying for a London pattern anvil?


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2017 prices. Other threads folks mention paying $2 or $3 per pound, and state that $4 a pound is for a really nice anvil. Usually it is stated that some folks might pay this, but the author personally never has. Something like a Peter Wright is desired. I am finding that this seems impossible. A local auction today that I was unable to attend--seems like, from what I could gather, anvil such as these were bringing maybe $6 to $8 a pound. What gives?

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Question: What should I be paying for a London pattern anvil?

Answer: The least amount of money you can get away with for an anvil that fits what you're looking for.

"Price per lb" is dependent on WAY too many variables to be something you can realistically chart down. Take average eBay price versus average "hey, do you know anyone with an old anvil?" price. Look up "TPAAAT" on this forum for tips on scoring one.

Also, keep in mind that the shape of the anvil does NOT determine how "good" it is. There are many pieces of random steel at my local scrap yard that I would gladly take over one of those cast-iron ASOs. This forum is THE PLACE to research anvils so that you can make an informed decision of what fits the bill.

So, sorry that I can't answer your question in the way that you were probably hoping. I strongly suggest that you go the "back roads" route, though, for your anvil hunting. The truth is, if there are other people in the market for an anvil present, you're hard pressed to get a bargain.

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At $8 a pound you can buy new Refflinghaus. Older worn anvils are nice but they certainly don't improve with age. 

You can find opportunities if you look where others don't, and ebay or the internet usually has a crowd of onlookers.

Having said that i found a few good opportunities on Gumtree ... that wold be your Craigslist. 

Best of luck in your search but keep an eye on new prices for Nimba, Reffies and similar quality anvils and don't pay more than half those prices. 

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I thought that anvil prices, here in Israel, are insane at $500-$1000. But it translates to $5/lb. More or less like the sensible world.

HOWEVER - do tell me this: A lathe of roughly the same weight, costs roughly the same. But is obviously WAY more complicated and expensive to make. How comes?

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1 hour ago, lyuv said:

HOWEVER - do tell me this: A lathe of roughly the same weight, costs roughly the same. But is obviously WAY more complicated and expensive to make. How comes?

Because it is the buyers that set the going rate.

Less people interested in buying a machine that they probably don't know how to use and don't want to learn to use.  Where as a lot of people are seeing more blacksmithing related media and thinking that looks easy, I can do that. And all I need is an anvil and hammer.  Also size.  Most people can afford the floor space for an anvil and not so much for lathe.  

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I realize that there are many variables, and a London pattern is not necessarily required, but since this anvil can last generations, might as well do it right. I am trying to learn as much as possible to make an educated and perhaps a somewhat thrifty purchase, if so lucky!

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The TV show Forged in Fire has driven the market upwards for anvils. Bargains can still be found but one has to be patient to find them. I just purchased a nice 106 lb Hay-Budden blacksmith anvil for $200 ($1.89 per pound) but passed on at least a half dozen due to condition or price. Take a look at the improvised anvils thread. There is a post about a 110 lb hunk of steel that I bought for $35 that will do as much work as the Hay-Budden for 31 cents per pound because I made a bick for it.

 

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1 hour ago, MrBojangles said:

I realize that there are many variables, and a London pattern is not necessarily required, but since this anvil can last generations, might as well do it right. I am trying to learn as much as possible to make an educated and perhaps a somewhat thrifty purchase, if so lucky!

How do you know what "right" is? I'm not taking a shot at you, I'm just trying to point out you're too new to the craft to know good from bad where equipment is concerned. A PW is a high end anvil IF it's  been kept well. Can you tell if it's been through a fire, the face is delaminating, etc. have you laid hands on it, tested? 

Price per lb. is in reality selling not asking and auctions are almost always well above selling price. It's the auctioneer and his shill's jobs to drive prices as high as possible. I've stopped signing up for a number at the few auctions I attend anymore unless there's something desirable at inspection. I haven't bid in probably a decade or better. Just go to an action and watch the guys in the crowd pointing out bidders to the auctioneer. Those are the shills and they're driving up the bids, just watch a couple auctions and decide if you want to play. 

You're in good smithing tool country, ply TPAAAT and be patient. Your patience WILL be rewarded.

Till then pick up a broken axle from a heavy truck repair shop, talk to the guys in the shop or the secretary. Take donuts or a nice desk pretty. The boss has other things on his mind he'll run you off. Nothing personal, hes got other things on his/er mind.

London pattern is just a shape, it doesn't define what an anvil is. The blacksmith defines the anvil by the product made.

I'm a personal fan of axles mounted on end flange up but most anything reasonably heavy well mounted will make a good anvil once you've developed the skills sets. Till you do it doesn't really matter what your anvil is, it's you that has to learn what and how do smith.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I won't deny that I am a novice and perhaps I won't know what is right, and could make an egregious error. The best I can do is learn what to look for, such as a 75% rebound using a ball peen hammer, etc.

I have been to many auctions over the years. Attend all of them, or just don't bid. Don't know if there were shill bidders yesterday as I wasn't there.

I buy most things vintage, at auctions and such. I am patient and will wait. Was hoping to hear that bargains were to be had yesterday due to the volume of advils being offered. In my experience, usually if one of something is offered, the price can go high, but if many are offered, prices can be lower. Some auctions, bargains abound. Others, no bargains anywhere.

Example of "volume" and depressed prices. A local Colt collector, single action army revolvers, died, had over 400 firearms. Family did not elect to sell at auction due to sheer volume potentially leading to depressed prices.

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Around my rural area, there are a couple of guys with deep pockets who pay steep prices at every auction for anvils that come up.  They don't really use them...just park them in storage presumably thinking they have money in the bank or something like that.  It's like they are having some sort of (left blank) contest at the auctions.  That skews the normal local markets a LOT.

Additionally, anvils don't have an expiration date. Unlike most equipment that degrades as it sits...from catastrophic rust, internal dust, bugs, mice eating the wiring, etc., anvils can sit basically forever.  Even if they get darned rusty that's usually no real detriment.  That means sellers can put up very high "fishing" prices and just wait a long time to see if someone eventually nibbles.  Because buyers are quite often childishly impatient or willfully ignorant--that week's paycheck burns a hole in their pocket so they pay up at this out-of-whack pricing.

Patience is your best friend when hunting anvils.  Lack of patience is the downfall that not only spurs people to buy overpriced junky anvils, but screws the market up for others anvil shopping.  Just don't.  As others have said, the TPAAAT system does work if you put the effort into it.  

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What does TPAAAT mean?

Yes, I can be patient. Since this auction was local and had volume, I was optimistic. When I get said anvil, given I work about 70 hrs a week lately, I might not get around to using it for some time, although actually having it might spur me to action. So waiting weeks or months, or longer--not a problem.

I work too much. Case in point, I ended up at work yesterday instead of the auction. But it sounds like I might not have missed much.

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34 minutes ago, Kozzy said:

Around my rural area, there are a couple of guys with deep pockets who pay steep prices at every auction for anvils that come up.  They don't really use them...just park them in storage presumably thinking they have money in the bank or something like that.  It's like they are having some sort of (left blank) contest at the auctions.  That skews the normal local markets a LOT.

In my area I have started noticing the "regulars" that show up to most all the auctions.  Between watching them and eavesdropping, I found out they are pickers/antique dealers.  Some have booths at numerous consignment shops. 

What I can't seem to figure out, is how they are making any money.  They bid items up to fleabay prices.  How do they make money buying anvils for $5-$6 per/lbs?  Craigslist local adds will sit for months at $4-5 per lbs.  4 and 5" post vices bid up to $200+ (missing spring, mount, chipped, rusted solid).  Wish I knew where they are reselling. 

I've been lucky acouple of times at auctions and grabbed anvils for less than $2 /lbs.  5 3/4" post vice for $70.

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Cheapest prices for anvils is the UK, dearest is probably Australia. 

As far as that comment of Lathe prices and anvil prices, I wish it was like that here in Sydney. Lathe prices are ridiculous here up in the thousands for small rusty things one has no chance of finding parts for.  May be we can trade. Find me a nice cheap lathe in Israel and I find you a nice cheap anvil in UK .... hang on ... how much will postage be? :)

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If you want a good anvil for a solid price; go to Quad-State where there will be several hundred anvils for sale.

If you want a good anvil *cheap* use the TPAAAT and find the anvils NOT on the open market being sold by people trying to make the most money possible off them.

If you are in a hurry, buy new from a respected maker/dealer.

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No, not in a hurry.

Generally, with some patience, I can usually desired vintage tool or firearm at reasonably low price...with patience. Stands to reason the same might be true of said London pattern anvil. 

It was stated that I do not need such an anvil, in another thread, I think. This is correct. But I desire one. Why not do it right, as this will outlast me and is something someone who served in the War of Northern Aggression might once have used. Since it is not a massive capital outlay and I won't need to repeat regularly.....why not do it right?

 

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Because it's WRONG for some things! (Like forging Japanese swords.)  Have you looked at Italian anvils, French "pig" anvils, German anvils---why not get one that may have been used by someone in the American Revolutionary war?

You are using a loaded term and it may discharge unexpectedly.  It's perfectly acceptable to say "because I want a london pattern anvil" Claiming that it's "right" is bogus without giving the criteria that narrows it down to one. (Which saying "It's right for *me*" would accomplish...)

I have an 1828 William Foster I use at times---be perfect for the fur trade era; but not for traveling.  I also have one made for me that is based on a roman example from a museum in Bath England (and documented about once per century through the French and Indian War---not a London pattern). I have a bridge anvil used for sharpening cable tool well drilling bits and a denglestock, both not London Pattern anvils and both *right*!

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6 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Because it's WRONG for some things! (Like forging Japanese swords.)  Have you looked at Italian anvils, French "pig" anvils, German anvils---why not get one that may have been used by someone in the American Revolutionary war?

You are using a loaded term and it may discharge unexpectedly.  It's perfectly acceptable to say "because I want a london pattern anvil" Claiming that it's "right" is bogus without giving the criteria that narrows it down to one. (Which saying "It's right for *me*" would accomplish...)

I have an 1828 William Foster I use at times---be perfect for the fur trade era; but not for traveling.  I also have one made for me that is based on a roman example from a museum in Bath England (and documented about once per century through the French and Indian War---not a London pattern). I have a bridge anvil used for sharpening cable tool well drilling bits and a denglestock, both not London Pattern anvils and both *right*!

Yes you are correct. Any of the aforementioned would work for me.

I never buy anything new, except for underwear and food, so vintage always work best. Other threads suggest that Peter Wright anvils have virtually unparalleled quality.

So, wanting to get the best I can afford suggests but does not imply it must be, a London pattern/Peter Wright anvil.

This last paragraph in bold as I did not figure out how to shut off italics and now am writing in bold. Nothing in bold here warrants such.

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18 minutes ago, MrBojangles said:

This last paragraph in bold as I did not figure out how to shut off italics and now am writing in bold. Nothing in bold here warrants such.

At the top of the window when you are writing (or editing) a comment, there is a capital letter "B", an italic capital I, and some others. Highlight the text you want to bold or italicize and click the appropriate letter. To remove bolding or italicization, highlight the bolded or italicized text and click the appropriate letter again. You have approximately one hour from the time you first hit "Submit Reply" to edit your post.

22 minutes ago, MrBojangles said:

I never buy anything new, except for underwear and food, so vintage always work best.

This is, if you will forgive me, nonsense. What works best is what does the job best, whether new or old. If you want the cachet of having something old, that's fine: your money, your choice. Just don't delude yourself that something is ipso facto better simply because it's old.

25 minutes ago, MrBojangles said:

Other threads suggest that Peter Wright anvils have virtually unparalleled quality.

No, that's Mousehole.

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Well a solid steel forged anvil is probably quite a bit higher in quality than the PW---IN MY OPINION!

Of course I don't own one as I'm cheap and so buy vintage Peter Wrights, Hay Budens, Arm and Hammers, Fishers, William Fosters, Powels, Trentons.

I lust after a big Nimba as it's design is just so right for heavy work---probably work that is fast moving out of my ability zone as I get older.

And I did coin the phrase "Anvil Envy" as most of us crave anvils that we really don't need...particularly LARGE ONES!

We quite understand the "I want a PW" (I want a Mousehole to round out my using set).  Just using the term "right" sets off all the people whose personal preferences differ.

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I wouldn't say that Peter Wrights are of unparalleled quality just from the sheer number of ones I see with swayed tops, and faceplate depressions. I have one that is 138# and it has a divot in the faceplate from repeated use in that area suggesting that the tops are not that hard.  I would put my Fisher above a PW. I also have a couple of Hay Buddens, a Vulcan, Sodefors (primo quality), and a new JHM which I would probably put ahead of a PW too.  Solid cast steel anvils don't have a problem PW's can have - face delamination. 

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I found a few good deal on Gumtree but it takes patience. As far as prices paid around here it is hilarious. Even more funny are prices asked, particularly when the age of the anvil is quoted as a plus. Very valuable antique anvil (No brand and horn broken off) 100 kg $3000. Stump not included, sold separately for $300 ... and so on and so forth. Makes the search a tad harder, but I don't blame the seller, rather the buyer that even answers such sort of ads. 

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