Forge restoration questions

[Samuelliott]

I am freshly out of the USMC.  12.5 years and 100% VA disabled.  My dad was a farrier/blacksmith for 30+ years and I wanted to learn the art.  I use his forge when I visit, but I live 500 miles away.

To get started, I bought an old stand forge and wanted to get it up and running. It was in disrepair, but I've got the blower moving and bought a new ashgate and tuyere grate.

It had a small crack in the pot on the edge, which I will weld.  I am pretty resourceful, so I can rig a belt.  In pictures of similar forges, I have seen, there is an additional piece to attach the lever.  I have seen how to rig it to work without that piece, but I would still like to find one to complete the forge.

there are 4 bolts in the side that appear to have been to hold a wind/heat shield.  I can make one from tin, but I would much rather at least be able to see what it is supposed to look like.

I am very new to the community and know very little as it pertains to antique forges.  Any and all information, from you seasoned guys, about this forge will assist me in learning and will hopefully help me narrow my search for parts.  I would like to know things as simple as what this style forge is called. 

Also, I was wondering about lining/insulating the bottom of the forge.  Fire brick would be too thick.  I was thinking some type of clay or mortar.  How were they originally insulated?

the first photo is a similar forge with a complete handle/lever assembly.  I am missing the metal piece between the bracket and the wood. 

The following 3 photos are the forge I bought.

once again, any and all information on this forge would be extremely helpful.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Thank you for serving, you guys are what makes America what it is. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance.

That type forge was pretty common though I don't know the name. I can help you with some details and general knowledge. If you line it do NOT use mortar, you don't want the liner cemented to the pan! Damp garden clay tamped hard is more than enough for to "Clay" a forge pan. It isn't to insulate the pan the clay is to help distribute the heat, cast pans especially don't like a large temperature differential. Say near red around the air grate and coffee warm 4" away.

The two holes by the tuyere in the center of the pan is for an air grate. This type forge did't have a "fire pot" they were what's commonly called a "Duck's Nest." You'd clay it to an inch or so deep and taper it down at the air grate making a shallow depression directly around the grate. The incoming air blast helps keep the air grate from burning up.

I'm not much help with the ratchet lever blower drive, I have a crank blower on my rarely used coal forge.

About restoring it. These pieces of equipment weren't intended to be anything but utilitarian tools. Everything was made to be repaired or replaced with what was handy. Blacksmiths were resourceful by nature and their tools were tough, easy to maintain and repair or rebuild.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting to bring it back to original or period condition. I'm suggesting that if you want to blacksmith put it back in working order and put it to work. I replaced the win screen with a piece of 55gl. drum, chines, paint, printing and all and take it to demos. Spectators who notice it more often than not will comment about how a blacksmith will make what he needs.

I encourage that sort of talk, it's part of the show. 

Shortly folk will start replying who know what's what about your forge. There will be catalogs, pictures, drawings and such posted in a little while. IIRC there are a couple companies selling replacement components for it. No not genuine ones  aftermarket parts, don't be silly. 

Oh, about some of the characters who hang out here. We're all kinds but generally pretty nice and we love helping folk with the craft. We LOVE pictures, shop, tools, projects, scenery, critters, . . most anything you'd show a young child. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Leatherneck Donald]

Semper Fi, Marine.  I can't offer any advice to you as I am also brand new to this art

[CMS3900]

I have one similar to that with 4 legs. There should be a eye bolt going through the ball on the forge, that has the half round gear, and then on the handle there should be what looks to be a gate hook that attaches the pump handle to the eye bolt on the ball part. The wind shield depends on your conditions.  I move mine around a lot so I don't want to add more weight.  The cast iron in it and the claying like Frosty said adds enough.

[Samuelliott]

Thanks guys.  This is extremely helpful.  Thank you for your time and effort in replying to help this guy get started.

[ThomasPowers]

Looks a bit like the Sears & Roebuck "whirlwind forge" sold for US$5.19 in their 1908 catalog (and probably a lot more catalogs, I just have the 1897 and 1908 reprints so far)  Of course hundreds of different manufacturers produced similar forges as well

[Ferrous Beuler]

Semper Fi Sam, AooohhhAaaahhh!

There are smiths around you to be sure, no doubt. The ABANA affiliates maps with pins on the map all over unfortunately shows your location to be in one of those areas with no close smithing neighbors. Closest to you being Norfolk/Virginia Beach Virginia and the little burg of Lancaster South Carolina. No problem, there are certainly some smiths near you. Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service Brother, I was USMC 1986-1990 on skids, HMH-463 Kaneohe Bay and Marine Barracks Pearl Harbor.

Join ABANA, check in here often and get aquainted, you will find smiths near you. You got a blower yet for that forge? I might have a spare kicking around, air isn't tough to find, anvils can be. Like I said, join the club and stuff begins to magically appear once you meet some folks.

Welcome to IFI.

[Samuelliott]

Ferrous Bueler,  thanks for the advice.  I just joined Abana.  As you stated, anvils are difficult to come by.  I have been bidding on EBay, and I must have good taste because the ones I bid on go for about 7 bucks per pound.  I am wary of buying a new anvil because they are hit or miss, and I can't tell how hard they are (how easily I will mark them up).  I don't want a bouncy one.  I like the old Hay Budden and Peter Wrights.  I'm looking for 120-150 lbs with clean(ish) edges and a flat face. I'm not 100% sure what all I need in an anvil.  I would like to be able to make tools/knives to start.  Maybe horseshoes later.  I'm checking everywhere I know to find one.  NCTOOLs has. 112 lb Calvary anvil for 440 new.  Any thoughts on it?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I have a 125# JHM and it is a nice anvil.

[Frosty]

Another couple words for you Sam. Don't get in a hurry, be patient and the tools will come. Anvils are going way high right now, especially old ones PW and HB are high prices largely on the name. There are really high end new anvils but they cost. You can buy Peddinghaus through Home Depot since Rigid bought the company. Then there's Refflinhaus. Pieh tools handles a number of anvils and various other blacksmithing tools and equipment. Nimba is a top shelf new anvil cast in the USA, as are a couple others of which I can never remember the names. It's a TBI thing.

Another point, you're making a basic beginner's mistake in thinking a flat face is particularly desirable on an anvil, it's of some use straightening but of virtually no consequence forging. It's have to be pretty bad for dishing to be a negative for use. Old anvils almost all have chipped edges. If they're bad enough to effect your work grinding a radius is usually all that needs done. In fact if your anvil has sharp edges you need to radius them to prevent damaging your work forging shoulders. If there comes a time when you need a sharp edge it's easy to weld a square shank on a piece of steel and grind what ever kind of edge, face, die, etc. you need. This really does beat paying way much money for sharp edges or risking the anvil's heat treat trying to "repair" things that don't really matter.

See John, I didn't even mention Earth's super deluxe Cadillac anvil the cast Swedish steel anvil made by Soderfors. Keep your eyes open for one Sam you may get really REALLY lucky. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Samuelliott]

Thanks guys.  Frosty, I know first-hand about the TBI issues.  2 x IED strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a vehicle rollover at 65 mph in Jordan.  My memory is mush a lot of the time.  If I don't write things down, I lose them most of the time.  So no worries.

I will be on the lookout.  I truly appreciate the assistance.

[arkie]

Samuel, I have nothing to contribute to the thread, but just wanted to jump in and express my thanks for your service.  You guys all sacrifice more than we can imagine.

[Samuelliott]

Biggundoctor, were you singing the praises of a good anvil, or were you looking to sell it?  I can see how it could be taken either way, and if you were wanting to sell it, I would at least consider buying it.  I like the style.

Frosty, it is difficult not to just jump the gun and get started.  Dad said he would show me how he made his tongs the next time I visit.  It seems pretty straightforward in concept.  I'm 100% VA retired and am waiting on a few different prospects to pan out, so I have nothing but time to pour into learning, making mistakes, scrapping, and starting again with just a bit more know how.

that seems to be my process, haha.

Thanks, Arkie

[ThomasPowers]

As I generally consider ebay a terrible expensive place to buy anvils I am not surprised  you are finding them expensive there.

In general the net is a terrible expensive place to buy anvils.

I suggest using the TPAAAT; of course it means getting off the net which many people have an aversion to.

I had a mild TBI and another one a month later last year and it does take a sizable while for the brain to start working right again.  I know how much a pain it is when you reach for information you *KNOW* you knew and nothing pops up. (I go in for elipesy testing in 10 days and possibly will get the OK to go back to driving!)

Thank you for your service.

[Frosty]

Feeling more like home Sam? Lots of TBI survivors here and we're not ashamed to share our issues even if in jest. Like there's really a chance Thomas's brain will start working right. Like a couple TBIs are likely to improve things. 

Aphasia is a constant companion and I have a couple sometimes effective work arounds. Do you read about the brain, how scientists think it works, new tips, tricks, etc. Sam? I do, it's another work around to get a handle on what's supposed to be going on.

Search TPAAAT it works a treat for virtually any tools. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Getting back to your forge, these can be very nice if you get them running smoothly. I had one for several years a few decades ago, and used another for a while when I  restarted blacksmithing a couple of years back. In the end, I found the pump lever on mine to be finicky and inefficient,  so I first went with an electric blower jammed up the tuyere and later shifted to a JABOD. 

That said, these can be great little forges, and you should definitely go ahead with what Frosty and CMS3900  said above. My only addition would be to check out what kind of wheelbarrow replacement handles your local hardware store sells.  They are already pretty close to the right shape for the pump handle. 

Regarding anvils, there are some great threads here on IFI about improvising one out of a piece of railroad track, a block of scrap steel, or even a chunk of granite. Take some time to read over those threads and see what inspires you.

I don't have any TBI myself, but there are those who have suggested it might be an improvement....

[Samuelliott]

JHCC.  I will look at wheelbarrow handles, but I have an old drawing knife I like a lot for making my own handles.  There are guys doing some logging down the road, and they will let me have the short logs.  It is not terribly complicated to make handles, and I enjoy creating.  By no means am I turning my nose up at your advice, and I will look at the hardware store.

[Anachronist58]

Samuelliot - Thank you for your service.

The human brain is a truely amazing system. As mentioned above there may be no limit to the work-arounds one may deploy on one's journey.

I don't know if you have heard of Nick Popaditch - He wrote "Once a Marine", a memoir of his recovery.

Now I am a Cold War Veteran - Never been shot at. My problems began well before I enlisted.

But the Gunnery Seageants' account helped me in my protracted return from Oblivion, which began with making gravel on a post anvil.

Vilayanur S. Ramachandran's writing would be an excellent resource, I think, for giving yourself a psychological edge.

From an undistinguished Army veteran, thanks again for Your Service.

Robert Taylor

 

[JHCC]

10 hours ago, Samuelliott said:

JHCC.  I will look at wheelbarrow handles, but I have an old drawing knife I like a lot for making my own handles.  There are guys doing some logging down the road, and they will let me have the short logs.  It is not terribly complicated to make handles, and I enjoy creating.  By no means am I turning my nose up at your advice, and I will look at the hardware store.

Always good to know what your available resources are. We had a big ash tree taken down last year, and I saved some of the trunk to split into hammer handle blanks.

[George Geist]

Mr Elliott,

Thank you for your service sir.

Here's a link to someplace else where yours truly posted a few vids of how to build your own:

http://horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/111-build-your-own-forge/

Not really that hard and perhaps a little less aggravating than trying to fix one? The one you have looks like an old riveters forge. Nice find though. The TPAAAT is probably best way to get an anvil. To each his own and all that kinda thing but in JMNTBCHO an NC is barely out of the ASO category.