I was just thinking about welded-on bars to hold stock without tongs and it occurred to me that there are lots of clamping systems that might be adapted to the end of a bar for stock holding.

I'm imagining something that's like an adjustable chuck on the end of a bar.  I can't recall seeing anything like that but smarter folks than me have been at this for a long time.  I'm curious if there's anything like that out there and what it's like to use.

It seems like it'd be a nice option for people without a welder.  Thanks in advance.

 

search on blacksmithing porter bars for some examples  (if you skip the blacksmithing you just get bars in porter TX, IN, etc)

Thanks Thomas.  Looks like they're mostly meant to be welded on rather than clamping.

 

 

Well all the handling holes in anvils were not for welded on bars. Welding is a fast easy process nowadays so check out early films of smithing to see more non-welded stuff.

You want to hold the end such as in a heavy piece of metal using a crane and loop of chain, or holding the end for twisting and turning? A lot would depend on the size and weight of the stock, square or round, etc

Vise grips or a pipe wrench would work in some applications.

or a piece of pipe swaged to fit the piece---or not! I bend my rasptlesnakes by opening the jaws of my vice a bit and then running a larger piece of pipe down the snake from the tail till near where I want to bend and setting it under the back jaw and pulling the pipe down to bend it over the front jaw.  Flip it over 180 and back the pipe off a bit and do the next bend in the opposite direction, repeat till you get to the tail and bend it up in the air with a leather or wooden mallet.

Rockstar, since I first say this I was thinking of a couple things for smaller stock. They seemed a little silly at first but hey, let's throw some ideas out there. 

For small stock, whatever size one you can find, I have a drill bit extension that would fit up to 3/16 stock with two set screws in the head. It is 13" long so that would give you a bit of a handle. Larger ones may be found. I picked mine up at a flea market, I'd think they would've available somewhere. Larger sizes may be available too.  

Another idea that struck me from that one is to thread a rod to hold a drill chuck. Lock it in and go. Different sizes available there too. 

Just some ideas. Never know. 

Isn't this how Vise-grips were made?  A blacksmith trying to make better tongs! No reason someone shouldn't- 

 

For straight stock, what if you took a bit of tubing, and riveting inside of it a bar, leaving a bit of tube out one end. Then, you drilled and tapped for a set screw, like a socket wrench, except with clamping power. 

If that makes any sense, then hopefully you can visualize what I'm trying to say! 

I've thought of several spring loaded varieties but they all end up heavier to use than a good set of tongs with a tong ring...

I suppose for a particularly odd-shaped piece that was hard to grab with a standard pair of tongs, you could weld on a nubbin of square stock, grab it with tongs, and cut it off when you're done. Of course, if you're going to go to the trouble of welding a piece on, you might as well just weld on a long handle.

Unless it needed to fit in a furnace with a closed door....the exception that proves the rule?

I have a terrible time with my tongs. From the fire to the anvil I usually lose a lot of time fumbling around trying to turn the work piece how I need it, sometimes dropping it, losing heat as I fumble around. All my tongs are used flea market bargains except two pair of Wolf jaws. I am thinking of ordering some quick tongs and make them to fit my work better, but mostly right now I think it's just that I haven't practiced enough and my coordination is not that great anyways. I have considered just welding rebar onto my pieces but resisted thus far because if I do that I will never get the hang of the tongs, plus that's a PITA anyways.

9 hours ago, bigb said:

I have a terrible time with my tongs. From the fire to the anvil I usually lose a lot of time fumbling around trying to turn the work piece how I need it, sometimes dropping it, losing heat as I fumble around. All my tongs are used flea market bargains except two pair of Wolf jaws. I am thinking of ordering some quick tongs and make them to fit my work better, but mostly right now I think it's just that I haven't practiced enough and my coordination is not that great anyways. I have considered just welding rebar onto my pieces but resisted thus far because if I do that I will never get the hang of the tongs, plus that's a PITA anyways.

If only you knew a blacksmith that would be able to make you a pair of tongs to fit your exact needs

heh heh well I am not calling myself a blacksmith just yet! I do however have a friend who is quite accomplished and I will ask him to assist me when he has a little time. 

Bigb, why not just weld on the rebar and make the tongs to start with. You can work on Using the tongs once you have some that work better then what you have now. If you got it, use it. 

MODIFY your tools to work for you---I claim over 1.5 million years of tool using hominids in my ancestry gives me the right to make, modify, and use tools!  (well usually I say tool using monkeys...)

Thanks for all the responses.  I think "porter bars" is the closest we've come to an established/ traditional tool that works along the lines of what I was imagining. 

Thomas astutely hit on the real challenge when he mentioned the weight of tongs.  Daswulf's suggestion with the drill extension is a good one for square or round stock.

Perhaps this idea will come full circle when advanced materials like carbon nanotubes become available to the home-gamer.

I could definitely see the advantage of a light weight ,super strong "handle" material that still had excellent stock-holding ability.

bigb,

When I was first starting out (still a beginner), I wasted a lot of time fighting with my tongs and my forge.  When I used longer stock to give a handle, I was able to see what anvil and hammer presentations were creating the reaction forces that knocked work out of my tongs.

Once I learned what worked, it was amazing to work with tongs again because I didn't knock the stock out of my grip so much.  If you watch farriers making horse shoes from bar stock they use flat jawed tongs on the narrow axis of stock they're bending (turning) on the thick axis.  That's awfully difficult to do without controlling the reaction forces. 

I watched one gent making a horse shoe and it was amazing how little the shoe bounced around.  He spun a shoe on the face of the anvil like a hula hoop using his hammer to shift his tong grip from one side to the other.

 

On January 26, 2017 at 6:57 PM, rockstar.esq said:

I could definitely see the advantage of a light weight ,super strong "handle" material that still had excellent stock-holding ability.

We call them "tongs" (grin).

I have a couple of pairs of tongs made from Titanium, one set I forged and the other I bought at Quad-State for US$10 (gloat gloat gloat)  They are lighter *AND* they don't transmit heat as well as steel ones and can be quenched in water,

On 2017-01-26 at 5:18 AM, bigb said:

I have a terrible time with my tongs. From the fire to the anvil I usually lose a lot of time fumbling around trying to turn the work piece how I need it, sometimes dropping it, losing heat as I fumble around. All my tongs are used flea market bargains except two pair of Wolf jaws. I am thinking of ordering some quick tongs and make them to fit my work better, but mostly right now I think it's just that I haven't practiced enough and my coordination is not that great anyways. I have considered just welding rebar onto my pieces but resisted thus far because if I do that I will never get the hang of the tongs, plus that's a PITA anyways.

Somtimes the way to go is to use tongs made from mild steel. Heat the jaws but not the stock. Grip the stock and hammer on the jaws until they fit perfectly. Make sure the reins do not close when you do this.

On 2/1/2017 at 2:04 AM, gote said:

Make sure the reins do not close when you do this.

Lashing a properly sized block of wood between the reins while you tweak the jaws can help.

19 hours ago, JHCC said:

Lashing a properly sized block of wood between the reins while you tweak the jaws can help.

I use a board with two holes

2 hours ago, gote said:

I use a board with two holes

Ooh, good idea!

Not mine originally and i do not remember wher I learnt it.

On 01/02/2017 at 7:04 AM, gote said:

snip..Make sure the reins do not close when you do this.

I always grab the hardy horns as they are always being handy near the anvil. The hardy peg is just the right dimension as a spacer for my tong reins.

Alan