BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Flip them around so the threaded section is pointing towards the flame so the screwdriver slot does not interfere with the air flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Added input air in burners Industrial blowers are used in fan-blown burners that are intended to produce positive flame pressure; these are used to overcome backpressure in some kinds of heating equipment and/or burners, such as some ribbon burner designs. A much smaller amount of added air pressure is an easy way to bring weak linear burners up to snuff. How much is about the same amount as an ordinary breath; this can be provided by the average computer fan. Anything beyond this well end up requiring burner changes to bleed off the excess kinetic energy, less the winds generated should blow out the burner's flame. How big a computer fan? Big enough to match the large end of the burner's air opening; doing this will tend to give the right amount of added air; not too large or too small. You can use either standard bladed box type fans or squirrel cage fans for the purpose of pushing air into a reducer fitting or cone-shaped air opening. Avoid fans with impeller blades; they create a completely different effect, which requires special handling and can create a serious hazard if handled improperly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 10/12/2017 at 8:26 PM, Mikey98118 said: excessive, mainly useless quotes removed Hi Michael, So would .020 ID be the ideal size to order for 1/2" burners or should I also .023 in 1/16" wall for nominal OD? I'm wanting to order some capillary tubing to play around with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 High EDE, The standard .030" orifice diameter found in contact tips for .023" welding wire is just a little oversize for half-inch burners. So .028" inside diameter tube would be perfect, although .026" tube should work by shortening the tube more than the length used for 028" inside diameter tube. Even the larger tube must be shortened from the standard 1-1/2" long MIG tips; this is needed to reduce friction losses in the smaller tube diameters. The friction I am referring to is caused by gas molecules bumping into each other in the confined spaces of these tube diameters; it has nothing to do with the smoothness of the tube walls. Any roughness of the wall would only add to the friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 That's right, I forgot about the nominal sizes for contact tips, thanks for reminding me! Okay, got it, I will get .028" and possibly also try .026" shortened version as well. Ede in Austin --where we're warned we may get a 1/10" of ice within the next 17 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Seems to be hard to find that ".026-.028" capillary tubing with .065" wall. Am I not looking in the right place or is it right in front of me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 You have to use hypodermic tube to get inside diameters like 028" very easily; the tube is then pushed into a MIG contact tip with the right size hole, or one that has been drilled out to the hypodermic tube's outside diameter. There are other ways of course, such as brass capillary tube, but they come and go in the marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 If the OD of the needle or capillary tube is reasonably close you can sweat the mig tip over them but you gotta go fast once the temps equalize that's where they stay. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Yes, that is true. They can also be tamped into position in a friction fit, and that's where they stay too. I like to cut the tube a little long, and then hand sand it shorter until it runs perfectly in a given burner; this goes much faster than it sounds because the tube has a thin wall. There is a learning curve that gives people anxiety only until they get into doing this once or twice; then how easy it actually calms them right down. I like #400 grit paper and a little spit, combined with a circular motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 In very small diameter tubing, friction losses rapidly mount up; this is not a problem, but a solution to not finding exactly the best inside diameter available for the desired burner size. For instance, in a 3/8" Mikey burner it allowed me to use .020" inside diameter stainless steel heavy wall capillary tube and get the burner perfectly tuned by sanding the tube down to about 9/6" length inside the end cap. I say about 9/16" because I started out at 5/8" and hand sanded down a few thousandths at a time until the burner tests gave me a perfect flame. I also tried heavy wall brass capillary tube in .022"; it never got as good a flame, although I expected it to do much better than it did. Experience only goes so far, and then experiment needs to settle matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 2:04 PM, Frozenforge said: Small burrs or even scratches left by a drill bit cause turbulence in the propane stream too early and reduce the overall airflow of the burner. This applies to all of the NA burner designs. Drilling holes and cutting capillary tubes can both cause internal burrs and scratches to interfere with the smooth bore needed to produce a long volume of gas from gas jets. The answer to this problem is the use of a set of torch tip cleaners to remove them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Would there be a market for jets? I worked at a screw machine shop that could crank them out. They held some small diameter holes to .0002" but .0005 was more the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 That's a lot smaller than most jets I've seen used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 11:20 AM, BIGGUNDOCTOR said: Would there be a market for jets? I worked at a screw machine shop that could crank them out. They held some small diameter holes to .0002" but .0005 was more the norm. Yes, there should be a market. Whether or not you want to bother... The smaller the jet opening the smaller the time needed for propane to plug it up, so instructions on how to clean gas jets of a few thousandths of an inch would need to be included. Also, very small jets require quite high fuel pressures, due to friction. The kind of area weed burner that uses 16 oz. propane canisters require full canister pressures to run; that is as much as 135 PSI. I would expect that they would not run below 60 PSI (this is only a guess). Propane, as it is marketed, is not a very clean fuel. Butane that is used in blue flame lighters, for instance, used to be as much as triple refined. Today triple refining is considered a minimum, while some of this fuel is now refined up to fifteen times. While especially crude propane is not the rule, at openings as small as .030" I have had to clean tar balls out of MIG tips for a friend who was using ''bargain" fuel. It only took three 16 oz. propane canisters to completely plug my weed torch, which as a very small jet bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Was asked to post my experience with Matrikote (wayne spells it with a "e" but company uses "a"), so far with my limited experience I would say its a good product. Again though I havent done side by side testing to know and have never used plistex either. I started trying to apply it with a foam brush but thought it was withholding a lot of the fine particles in the mixture so I switched to a restaurant squeeze bottle and proceeded to squirt it in the inside of the forge, I then managed to maneuver the forge in a way as to coat the inside with the residual to get an even coat. I do find that before and after coating it takes a little longer to heat up but once it does it is much more evenly distributed heat and stays hotter for much longer after turning off the gas,. It also does a good job of hardening ceramic wool, I had some exposed kaowool around the edge on the forge opening and after coating with the matrikote it has sealed the kaowool up pretty good and hardens similar to plaster of paris I suppose. Link to my thread: Here is a short video with the effects ( not mine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling dog forge Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 did you apply Matrikote over refractory cement?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Howling dog forge said: did you apply Matrikote over refractory cement?? yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling dog forge Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Matrikote 90 Ceramic Coating is a low cost alternative for ITC-100 for coating ceramic blanket material such as Kaowool and BCS Blanket ©TM. (ITC-100 is a Trademark of International Technial Ceramics, Kaowool is a Trademark of Thermal Ceramics). This material is rated for temperatures of up to 2500 F in a reducing atmosphere, and up to 1560 F in an oxidizing atmosphere. This material should NOT be applied over fire brick, refractory cement, or metal. just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops1911 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 yea thats what it says but everyone does it this way, you need a hard layer that wont get poked through when working with the metal. just matrikote over kaowool would not stand up long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling dog forge Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Any idea why they so adamantly suggest you not do this?? Is it doing a good job of adhesion at and after temperature to your cement?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I don't think any of us are advocating what they warn against. We apply it to castable refractory not refractory cement. Those are not the same things. Of course they may be using them interchangeably as well, and since they say not to use it on fire brick I'm guessing they would warn against what we do. There is no explanation for the warning and I surely can't come up with a reasonable explanation off the top of my head. Maybe it's like the warning on cotton swabs that says you should not insert them into the ear canal even though that's usually why people purchase them. Dunno. That's a pretty big difference in temperature tolerance depending on reducing or oxidizing. Maybe there are conditions under which it will react with certain materials at the right heat and atmosphere. Just a guess though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 1/26/2018 at 3:36 PM, coops1911 said: ust matrikote over kaowool would not stand up long term. Industrial equipment is subject to the "gorilla factor"; that is to say, stupid, lazy, and malicious employees. If the equipment is being used by someone who cares about it, making an occasional fast patch should not present a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Poe Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Ok, I'm new to this site so hope I'm in the right place for this question. I have a Venturi type burner consisting of 2 burners approximately 4" apart made from 6" 3/4 pipe 3/4to 11/4 reducer on intake and 3/4 to 1" reducer on out flow. 1/8 nipple which extends down from top approximately 1.25 inches into the inflow reducer with an orifice with a 1/16" hole. Feeding propane on 1-30 psi regulator. Question: when the burner is on it's side it burns well but when I turn it vertical it starts cutting in and out. Hot flame then no flame to orange flame then nice blue flame but only for a few seconds and then repeat. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 It might be pulling exhaust air from the forge into the burner. Try shielding the intakes of the burners to ensure they only get fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Also, the burners aren't constructed properly; their reducers are too small and their mixing tubes are too short. Reil's burner notes are still available on the Web. You can also find all the whys and hows of burners on the Burners 101 thread. Forges 101 will show you how to change your forge to do a better job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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