Redneck carp's-tongue Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 During my absence from posting on the forum, I have officially made a simple tool (a weed-puller, from the aforementioned "duck-bill"). what's next on my resume? Making a simple, barebones knife. Thing is, knife making involves a lot more than just forging or cutting out the blade. My question is are there any other aspects of knife manufacture that involve a craft other than metal smithing (other than making the handle or sharpening) and where can the materials necessary to make a knife be found (such as wood for the handle, files, cheap blade steel, etc.)? as for the knife design, I was thinking of a crude facsimilile/bastardization of a Persian fighter-type knife with a large, thick, somewhat long tang with a simple wooded handle. For a first-time smith, would that be an easy project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Gee you dont leave much do you, apart from from metal smithing, handle and sharpening. Heres one for you, not so much of a craft per say but maybe the most important aspect of knife making, care for a guess?..., certainly a very intelligent aspect of knife making, got it yet? Metalurgy. But I am not a knife maker. For your last question, its all easy if you dont want to spend the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Fit and finish my friend. That's what separates the big boys from the rest of us. Your forging can be good. Heat treat done well. It could be a functional knife. The little things that takes an ugly shank and makes it a work of art. Oh, and a well made sheath just closes the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck carp's-tongue Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I had actually counted the sheath as part of the metalworking process. so, anyone have an idea on what kind of easily-available steel I could use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 auto spring either leaf or coil and the less used the better; the best is to get drops from a spring maker; next is to get new springs that are removed from a vehicle to do a lift or lower. WORST is picking up a broken piece alongside the road. Note that knifemaking is considered one of the most advanced projects in smithing. Also look at blacksmith knives, self hilted knives, brut de forge knives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck carp's-tongue Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Spring steel, huh. I think I could just buy a stock of that in bar form at a hardware store, though I could be mistaken. and finally, what about the design of the knife in general? Is it an easy design to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Happy New Year Red Carp's Tongue, You need to sit down and do some REAL research, before you start playing the game of making posts. There is so much knowledge available in the Archives, YES there is a huge section on making blades. pack your lunch and soda pop, bury yourself for a few days and come out with a idea of what people are talking about. 34 minutes ago, Redneck carp's-tongue said: Spring steel, huh. I think I could just buy a stock of that in bar form at a hardware store, though I could be mistaken. and finally, what about the design of the knife in general? Is it an easy design to make? Yes there is an easy design. One end has a handle and the other end is pointy!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticallySharp Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 1084, 1075, 5160 (leaf spring metal) can all be purchased new. New Jersey Steel Baron, USAKnifemaker . com, Jantz, Pop's, and others sell it. Sheath making is an art to it's self. Which can take as much planning and effort as making the knife. O1 is a steel that can be found locally in most places. Higher priced as normally it's precision ground and a big harder to heat treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 OK, everyone is being very accommodating in answering your posts, but you still don't seem to get it so I'll try to simplify: No, knife making is not easy for a first time smith. In addition to material selection (which you don't seem to have a clue about; no it is very unlikely you can find high carbon spring steel in a typical hardware store, Thomas gave you a good tip on where to locate some and did TacticallySharp), there is forging tapers, distal thinning, fullering for a hidden tang, forging bevels, normalizing and annealing. Then you have scale removal, profiling and grinding or filing bevels. Finally heat treating, including quenching and tempering then more finish work on the knife surface. Then making the handle, fitting the tang and attaching it securely. Without a lot more research, some luck, or direct supervision from a blade smith things can go wrong at every step of the process (some wrong steps can even get you hurt). Yes you can make something pointy and sharp out of almost any metal and some kind of abrasive for stock removal (like the shank JMC is referring to), but it won't work for long or be safe to use if it isn't made well. Making a sheath out of metal is certainly possible, but might be more difficult than the knife making itself. The "craft" you are searching for that will help you in making your Persian Fighting knife is the ability to do adequate research. I suggest you get a book and do some reading on blacksmithing as well as knife making. You do seem to have the start of a grounding in terminology, which will certainly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Decarburization, grain growth, hammer control. temperature control for heating and forging ranges for the alloy used and practice in the skills of moving hot metal Most of which are not critical when working mild steel but are critical in knifemaking. The fastest way to forging good blades is to learn the basics of smithing thoroughly and then expand into bladesmithing, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Forging temps, an easy way to ruin your blade if your looking for easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I've demonstrated what can happen when you clamp a hot blade in a cold vise to my students using some scrap high C strap stock, speaking of which...as a source of steel for practicing blade work on: Used Commercial sewer snake---the flat strap not the coiled...I picked up 100' of it for US$7 at a fleamarket once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I dont understand what he wants, it appears he wants to make knives with out bothering to learn how to make knifes, but that would be silly, wouldnt it ? its not like we dont have an entire section devoted to knife making lessons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Naw, no surprise at all. A guy came out, a couple summers back and wanted me to tell (not show, tell) him the secret so he could make blades. I guess he didn't like the secret I haven't seen him since. "A little knowledge and lots of practice." The lots of practice part is just unfair. Oh well. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odblacksmith Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I think i got it...no forging...no stock removal... i'm not to much of a blade guy I have made a few small axes, some rail spike knives etc; so an expert i am not.This sounds like maybe a job for a 3d printer?But then again i don't know enough about 3d printing to know if it would spit out a knife shaped object or a decent blade.Other than that maybe powdered metal "Sintering" I think its called. I'm genuinely at a loss,i have not been able to make a blade without heat,hammer and abrasives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoRockNazz Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 32 minutes ago, odblacksmith said: I think i got it...no forging...no stock removal... i'm not to much of a blade guy I have made a few small axes, some rail spike knives etc; so an expert i am not.This sounds like maybe a job for a 3d printer?But then again i don't know enough about 3d printing to know if it would spit out a knife shaped object or a decent blade.Other than that maybe powdered metal "Sintering" I think its called. I'm genuinely at a loss,i have not been able to make a blade without heat,hammer and abrasives. SLS printing titanium and tool steels is already happening... you can even heat treat them. Problem is, a knife blade blank would run you $5000 at minimum. You provide the capital, I'll design/prepare the files, we'll make that knife happen haha Redneck, don't be discouraged by these guys, they are actually encouraging you in their own way; we all want knifemaking to flourish, you just gotta do your reading first http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/143-knife-making-classes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odblacksmith Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 To be honest this topic did actually get me thinking and thats something,I genuinely did think to my self "How WOULD i make a blade without forging or stock removal?"I know the technology may exist and after some googling later i will know more i'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 "How WOULD i make a blade without forging or stock removal?" Flint knapping, but then that'd be stock removal of a non metal knife. Cast a bronze one. Then work harden the edge. I'd been not paying attention to this either till odblacksmith quoted that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck carp's-tongue Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hrmm....All good (if unexpected) information; better than I had expected. Though, as I mentioned, this is a future project. I could learn some of these techniques from reading or internet research (in fact, I saw a competitor on Forged in Fire who did this extensively and explains he was basically self-taught). So, on that note, where would some of these learning resources be? Anyone care to name a particular book or website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 American Bladesmith Society hands on classes at Texarkana! (would you go to a surgeon who just learned from books and the web?) The Complete Bladesmith will help but learning to smith before reading it will help a lot more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalbender Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 redkneck carp i see your in austin, stop by my forge at sherwood forest faire this feb/march im just down from the top of the hill near the REALLY big tavern and the castle, near the potter, follow your nose im burnin coal. we will have a nice long talk about bladesmithing, blacksmithing, and why you should buy a steel building right away *grins* Shane Stainton Red Dog Forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 So is the OP for real? "How do I make blades unrelated to forging and grinding?" On a forging site. "Anyone care to name a particular book or website." Maybe IFI would be a starting place. I try not to be a difficult person on the web. BUT............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 MetalMangeler, I understand your feelings it has been very hard resisting a full commentary myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 23 hours ago, Steve Sells said: I dont understand what he wants, it appears he wants to make knives with out bothering to learn how to make knifes, but that would be silly, wouldnt it ? its not like we dont have an entire section devoted to knife making lessons.... 22 hours ago, odblacksmith said: I think i got it...no forging...no stock removal... i'm not to much of a blade guy I have made a few small axes, some rail spike knives etc; so an expert i am not.This sounds like maybe a job for a 3d printer?But then again i don't know enough about 3d printing to know if it would spit out a knife shaped object or a decent blade.Other than that maybe powdered metal "Sintering" I think its called. I'm genuinely at a loss,i have not been able to make a blade without heat,hammer and abrasives. 20 hours ago, Rashelle said: "How WOULD i make a blade without forging or stock removal?" Flint knapping, but then that'd be stock removal of a non metal knife. Cast a bronze one. Then work harden the edge. I'd been not paying attention to this either till odblacksmith quoted that. 2 hours ago, metalmangeler said: So is the OP for real? "How do I make blades unrelated to forging and grinding?" On a forging site. "Anyone care to name a particular book or website." Maybe IFI would be a starting place. I try not to be a difficult person on the web. BUT............. Could it be that you read it wrong? I think his question was how to make a good handle, where to get the steel. Not producing a blade without forging or removal. but the many other aspects: What makes a good grip, how to select the material, what kind of wood, how to make a sheath and so on? Edit: Not that information hard to find, at least to a point where one could draft a more specific question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck carp's-tongue Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 7 hours ago, KRS said: Could it be that you read it wrong? I think his question was how to make a good handle, where to get the steel. Not producing a blade without forging or removal. but the many other aspects: What makes a good grip, how to select the material, what kind of wood, how to make a sheath and so on? Edit: Not that information hard to find, at least to a point where one could draft a more specific question. That is exactly what I meant to propose when I asked this. Anyone still care to name a website or book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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