I decided to modify my firepot from straight dirt to hard firebrick on the sides. My soil is very sandy and the walls would collapse throughout the day and what started as a 4 inch wide firepot would be 6 inches before long. Ran it for about 5 hours today and it held up much better. I also made sure to pile up my coal high and as it started to coke up it formed almost an oven in the forge which helped me heat material much better. Between the new firepot and better managing my coal I had no heat related issues all day. I am also starting to get the hang of setting just the right amount of air coming in through trial and error. Practice makes permanent!

Have you seen the MarkIII jabod thread?

Pnut (Mike)

Yes I was just reading that thread last night lol. I may try kitter litter at some point. In the end I think I'd like to make the fire pot out of fireclay.

Regular old clay out of the ground mixed with sand will vitrify. Fire clay is really unnecessary. 

If you try the kitty litter are you planning on leaving it dry?  If so you can dump it back into a bucket when you're done. Dry kitty litter and bricks make for a more easily portable set up. 

If you plan on mixing it up you can mix 3 parts sand to 1 part kitty litter. Add just a little water to the sand and mix it  into the kitty litter in a bucket with a lid or plastic tote garbage bag etc. And let it temper over night. The moisture will disperse naturally throughout the kitty litter. Bentonite clay loves water. I don't mean it likes a lot of water I mean it's hydrophilic so little water goes a long way.  

The jabod is a great way to experiment and find out what works best for you so you can then make something more permanent and know it's going to be what you actually want.

Pnut (Mike)

 

 

Thanks Mike appreciate the advice. The soil around me has nearly zero clay unfortunately. By fireclay I meant making my own out of bentonite and sand as you suggested, not the store bought stuff. In the mixture you mention do you grind up the litter into a dust or do you just mix it whole?

Being able to experiment is why I went with the jabod. I don't know what works best and it makes it easy to change things up as I learn.

 

You can grind it up it'll make it easier to mix. After you add water to the sand and mix it with the clay you let it case overnight. You'll be able to tell it's ready when you can squeeze it and it makes a clump that will break cleanly without leaving dirt on your hand. If it crumbles add some more water and re temper for another day. If it's too moist and leaves mud on your hand add more dry mix and retemper. It's finicky getting it right. Using Dry bentonite and bricks a la Charles R. Stevens Mark III jabod would be simpler but some of the fun I think is trying to do it many different ways and seeing how they each turn out plus you'll get a broader base of experience in the bargain. 

Pnut (Mike)

Full disclosure, I haven't used bentonite in my forge.I've only mixed small batches to see how it mixes and dries up to this point. 

I'm only on jabod v2.0

Edited May 22, 20197 yr by pnut

When we had the pottery studio, this is how we rehydrated rock hard clay. works for unscented kitty litter & sand just adjust the amount of water.

 

I don't know If bentonite would need any help absorbing moisture. It sucks up water pretty readily but I'll give it a try and see how it goes next time I mix some up. Looks like a good shortcut. It might shorten the casing time. Thanks IF&C

Pnut (Mike)

Edited May 23, 20197 yr by pnut

I know that as “casing” as the clay absorbs the moisture and it is equally distributed. As to mixing clay and sand, one can also mix a pancake batter thick clay slurry and add dry clay. If it is to wet then let it dry in your bucket and then when it is the right consistency clamp the lid n for a day or two to rehydrate the crusties. Beats the old stomp  the clay into the sand trick.

Charles, I am sure you're right. When it comes to terms involved in ceramics I'm clueless. I was using tempering in place of casing. I thought they were interchangeable. Jargon does matter though so casing it is. Thanks

Pnut (Mike)

Casing is also called wedging, kinda like needing bread dough to thoroughly mix it.

Just because that’s what I know the operation buy, does not men i’m right, lol. But unlike some I am happy to be corrected buy the more knowledgeable. Thus so I learn.   

You are right, just different terms to the same means.

10 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

But unlike some I am happy to be corrected buy the more knowledgeable. Thus so I learn.   

That's my view also. I'd rather someone tell me I'm wrong If I'm wrong rather than let me go on saying or doing something that's not right. Every time I'm wrong is an opportunity to learn .

Pnut (Mike)

 

That only holds true for the more knowledgeable. For those who are charter members of the cult of ignorance I get my curmudgeon on.

Casing is a term also used for veg tanned leather, moistening it, getting it ready for tooling---or forming blade sheathes from it.

3 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

For those who are charter members of the cult of ignorance I get my curmudgeon on.

Willful ignorance, aka laziness.

Anyone who thinks their ignorant opinion is as valuable as a knowledgeable one,. Not all opinions are valid.

I posted a topic for this question and was advised to consult this thread.

The suggestion was to read through this thread for ideas, not post the same question, which is considered spamming.

On 5/22/2019 at 4:54 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Casing is also called wedging, kinda like needing bread dough to thoroughly mix it.

And "Tempering" is a term used in green sand casting. Casting sand has to have the right amount of moisture evenly distributed or bad things can happen. From the mold just crumbling when molten metal hits it or you can get steam explosions lowing molten metal out the sprue and risers. The latter is rare though and it usually indicates a wet spot in the sand. 

Tempering is what we called it casting.

I like to dampen the sand and mix the dry bentonite into it. The moisture is distributed fairly evenly to start and bentonite will take it's share quickly. Kitty litter chips mix a LOT easier than powdered bentonite. Heck casting sand it typically sand and bentonite clay. 

Frosty The Lucky.

I had to break down and get the electric mattress pump back out. The heat and humidity was too much for me to use the double action hand pump. I did manage to quiet the electric one down by putting it in a styrofoam shipping cooler, and found a portable jump starter/ power station so I wouldn't have to run an extension cord.           The cooler made the electric pump tolerable. It got rid of the worst of the high pitch whine. All in all its not that bad. I just had to get used to turning it off again when I move to the anvil. Didn't have that problem with the hand pump.

Hope everyone had a good holiday and to all the membership around the world hope you have a great weekend.

Pnut

OK Charles. I was a little skeptic when I first started building this thing. I finally got it tuned up and running like I want and now I am amazed. I found the same pump you are using now. At first I'm thinking, no way this thing is going put out enough air to heat metal. Are you kidding me? I'm sitting here pumping the cylinder and I see blobs of molten something flying out of the fire. Got to slow down on the pump. Luckily it wasn't my steel. Anyway, here she is and my first forging session. I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge.  

 

Oh, I forgot, I changed your measurements a little, I raised my tuyere to 3 inches. I get up to heat faster and if I need welding heat, add a pile of charcoal. Be carefully though, you'll wind up with a molten puddle.  

That is a clean looking forge, Mr. Griffin. What size tuyere are using at 3” below the hearth (top or bottom) what is the size and shape of your fire bowl?

Daniel P, did you find the answer you needed? If not we are happy to help.