Stupid, Stupid, Stupid

[notownkid]

My old man, an Air Force Col,. had a sure fire cure for Lazy & winey which we were "Entitled to" a good licking usually with a riding crop.  That only needed administering a couple times till the "Education" was permanent.  No allowances were given and if you needed money you stood at attention in front of him and stated your case, he would tell us what we needed to accomplice before the money would be forthcoming, main reason I worked outside the home starting when I was 10.   

[Charles R. Stevens]

Believe me, my hand has been sore and redder than two girls backsides more than once...

when did it become our "job" as parents to placate our children instead of educate them so they become good, productive members of society? 

[Dogsoldat]

It's funny how that works.  I can count the times I've had to spank my girl with my thumbs.  But they know that there are times to listen and listen well.  Everyone always comments on what good well behaved kids they are.  A great story that I heard at a buddies when I was visiting him.  His mother was looking after his two cousins.  Well their mom would spend half an hour or more reasoning with them and talking to them about the hows and whys of what they were doing wrong.  Buddies mom went thru 2-3 wooden spoons in the two weeks they were there.  When the sister came to pick her darling children up  they listened VERY  well to their aunt.  When the sister asked why she just shrugged and said, 'Don't know'.

[Frank Turley]

Almost two generations ago when we were reviving our moribund craft, I was watching a demo in the Midwest, and the demonstrating smith's short-sleeved shirt was suddenly afire. The entire shirt blazed up. The smith quickly pulled the shirt off over his head and threw it on the ground. Fortunately, there was no physical damage except for some frizzed, kinky head hair. In many areas, I don't think our smith was stupid, but he was unaware that man made materials were so flammable. I don't know what the material was...nylon; rayon; Dacron? In any event, at that time forward, I always wore cotton, wool, or a leather apron at the forge.

[Charlotte]

Frank,  I hear your bewilderment!  I've worked in chem labs for most of my life.    The rule was always cotton or wool and leather.    When you are dealing with acids, caustics. or solvents the last thing you want is a synthetic.  

One of the stories that circulated in a chemical plant that I worked in was the day that the "office girls" took a short cut to lunch through a section that had an unnoticed vapor leak from a fitting adjacent to their path. Their pantyhose wound up around their ankles before they reached the exit.

[ThomasPowers]

I remember a cautionary tale from a neighbor about when he was young and was working a summer at a chemical place and was supposed to be boiling down some Sulfuric Acid to concentrate it; after a bit he realized he hadn't added the boiling beads to it and went over to rectify his mistake.  A co worker realized what he was doing just in time to slam him under the emergency shower after the super heated solution exploded.  He told me the first thing he remembers is standing under the deluge wearing his goggles, his leather belt, his leather shoes and nothing else. Luckily only minor skin damage.    This tale was told me around 1971 having occurred during the '60's and I still remember several lessons from it!

[JHCC]

Remind me to never introduce any of you to my son. He's stubborn, willful, eats things he shouldn't (both food and not), gets into all kinds of trouble playing with things that aren't toys, damages things that don't belong to him, sasses his parents and teachers, etc, etc, etc.

And before you go off on one of those lectures that my wife and I have been putting up with for over a decade about how he needs to be disciplined or how we didn't spank him enough (and trust me, he's gotten spanked plenty) or how things were different back in the day or how your parents never would have stood for that behavior, take a fraction of a second to wrap your brains around the fact that HE'S AUTISTIC. Then think for a minute how many autistic kids "back in the day" ended up in insane asylums because they were non-verbal or in jail because they didn't have impulse control or starving in the street because they didn't have executive function and NOBODY KNEW that they weren't insane or criminal or able to take care of themselves.

Sure, make your sweeping generalizations about how the army whipped everybody into shape or paddling in school enforced discipline or whatever, but take a moment to think about this little detail: when you look back, you're only looking at the successes. You're not looking at the ones who got discharged or who never learned to read -- you're not looking at the ones that those methods set up for failure, the ones whose brains were simply not wired to learn that lesson in that way. 

Yeah, there are a lot of kids out there doing really stupid stuff, and there are a lot of reasons for that. I can think of plenty of good lessons that can be learned from the past, and plenty of ways that reconnecting kids with nature, with hard work, with making things, and so on -- ways that are becoming increasingly hard to achieve -- but turning the clock back to some mythical past is not the solution. Our educational system may be messed up and parents may be too permissive or whatever, but I thank God that we live in a world where people are at least aware that autism and other learning disorders and neurological differences exist, where kids like my son have a fighting chance -- and God knows it's a hard, hard fight -- to have something approaching a normal life.

[Bud in PA]

There is a show on TV " It Only Hurts When I Laugh". Almost every guy caught on film usually smashes his testicles. The only problem I see with that is they don'tsmash them hard enough to make them inoperable, so we are guaranteed another generation of nit wits.

[Anachronist58]

JHCC:

I have read all of the posts in this thread, and I am personally invested in this topic. It has been demonstrated that the Autism Spectrum runs in my family, but I and my siblings are from that generation wherein the clinical tools and concept of the Spectrum did not even exist.

My personal qualifications on this topic are mostly hidden from others, but I often find myself at odds with those with whom I must interact.

When I was discharged from the Army in 1979. I began an eight year odyssey of living on and off the street, at one point, living in the VA Hospital for three months. The social worker told me: "Your life is over, you'll never be able to take care of yourself."

I take issue with your position that the members of this forum are just like the people who have given you such grief as concerns your son. We as human beings are only beginning to unravel the very complex and daunting reality of the Autism Spectrum.

Not everyone on the Spectrum is socially and/or pragmatically mal-adaptive: And not every one who is socially and/or pragmatically mal-adaptive is on the Spectrum.

As you have pointed out, there are perfectly "normal" people who are just as the other posters have described, doing stupid things for numerous reasons - fill in the blanks.

For any of those who believe that Autism does not exist, I understand, but I won't tolerate it.

Robert Taylor

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Ah yes, cautionary stories and tests you had to pass before touching a tool in shop classes. Wear synthetic anything was a good way to end up doing book work for that period in any hot shop class, metal shop, ceramics or print shop. They cast lead in print shop and smelled strongly of printer's sulfur if they didn't change clothes.

I've had personal experience with HOT on synthetics, fortunately treating others burns. #1 rule is do NOT pick hot anything off you with your fingers! If it won't drop off when inverted start spitting and blowing. Having a water bottle handy is a great option. OUR heavy metal and auto shop classrooms had BIG SS sinks where 6-8 guys could wash up with their own faucet OR you could throw someone on fire or drenched in battery acid and hose them down good and thoroughly.

I don't know how many times I've freaked out friends when a chammy, flannel shirt or frayed blue jeans caught fire. The fuzz on new cotton shirts catches easily but only takes the fuzz off. Frayed ends on the other hand are a safety hazard and I stopped wearing them to the shop years ago.

A number of years before I retired a fellow working the night shift at the equipment shop welded up a fuel tank on a truck. He'd bee told a number of times he was NOT TO WELD fuel tanks but nobody was watching. Fortunately for him one of the other guys on the shift saw the flare from the fuel tank exploding and drug him out while the shop burned to the ground.

Not only was he not qualified to weld fuel tanks he stubbornly refused to wear proper PPE so his synthetic overalls, shirt, T shirt, pants and socks melted to him and deep fried him till his rescuer got a hose on him.

cotton, wool, hemp, linen, silk, leather, NATURAL fibers burn in an acceptable manner better still they REALLY STINK when on fire so you KNOW.

Okay, now for a CLASSIC bit of " I've never been there but," "wisdom." The only real regret I have in my life is not having children of my own to warp their precious minds. What I've observed is every child is different, some can be reasoned with, some need the switch, some it doesn't matter.

They were still handing out swats when I graduated from high school though the practice was fading quickly. I don't k now if it was for the good or not. What I do remember is how many of the hoodlum kids who took getting swats as a badge of accomplishment and often enough assaulted councilors when being talked to. My high school had a minimum of 2 police officers on campus during class and one after hours unless there were extra curricular activities then it varied. A game? I think LAPD assigned a squad.

My high school wasn't one of the "tough" schools, East LA and Watts schools made our school look like church.  So far I don't think anything has really "worked."

I've had the honor to be approached by a school here to try introducing a couple autistic boys to blacksmithing. First session was to be talk and I had more trouble communicating with the teacher than the boys. I don;t know where they were on the "spectrum" but both had issues but both responded well to direct expectations and rules. One has returned a couple times and has stopped talking about making swords. () Not because I've told him he can't but because he's learning how much is involved in blacksmithing. Good kids I like them both though my return student got himself his first job and doesn't have time for the shop anymore.

A friend of mine has a Down syndrome boy. He's doing pretty darned well but I'm out of my league with him. His parents are TERRIFIC.

The one observation I find nearly universal with people and animals is. "They will live up to your expectations." Or darned close. Expect trouble and you'll get trouble. Kids are smart, they just don't know anything yet, what you fill them with is what they have to work with. The longer someone lives by a set of standards the harder it is to change. Old dogs and all that.

I don't think there IS a single way to do anything let alone something like raise kids.

Frosty The Lucky.