Light Hammer Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hello all,After some time looking over the forum I decided to join. I hope I'm welcome and my question(s) aren't overly redundant. I'm planning a smithy build and I'd like a few pointers from those who have traveled this path in the past. I'll be sawing all the lumber needed (I own/operate a Frick 0 circle sawmill) for this project so I'm having to plan way ahead for the drying and pressure treating process. The space I have available will allow for a 24' wide x 20' deep building. I'm planning a pole building with board and batten siding and a concrete floor. I'll start with a gas forge then hopefully add a coal forge as funds permit. My friend and I are attending a blacksmithing class at the John C. Campbell Folk School in December. I've been interested in the art for many years and now, with my last child leaving the home, I finally have time to see it come to fruition. I'll post pictures of the progress when the project begins for all to enjoy.My initial question is; are there any pointers for progress or pitfalls to avoid at this stage of the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Ayup, long reply forbidden. See if Edit works. Nope, edit doesn't like it either.Frosty the Ticked. Edited August 4, 2015 by Frosty IPS STINKS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I would consider forgoing the concrete floor for now. Legs will last longer and if you get into the craft and want a hammer or press, you will not have to jackhammer the floor apart to install a machine foundation. Much cheaper startup as well. Other than that, think ventilation during the summer, try to account for prevailing winds in terms of window/door placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks for the replies. On the subject of the concrete floor, what would a machine foundation consist of? Additional footer? Thicker concrete? If I don't go with concrete, what would be best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Machine foundation would mean an additional footing and possibly thicker concrete.I'm of the opposite mind. I've spent too many years working off dirt floors. Floors that get muddy / messy when it gets wet/ rainy. I like a nice smooth concrete floor, though I will admit it's very hard on my bad back some days. Still I'd rather be able to easily move things around, use the floor to lay things out, pull the truck in and work under it on a dry solid floor etc.I spent years doing concrete. Cutting out a floor and pouring new footings doesn't phase me much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Understood. If I go concrete, it would be 6" thick at a minimum. Perhaps I could set up a thicker 'area' for a future hammer from the beginning. If the fatigue factor is the only detractor from going with concrete then I suppose I'm past that as my existing shop is on a concrete floor which I've become accustomed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 From the standpoint of someone who did concrete 6" is a good thickness for a general shop floor. If you go with a pad for a power hammer, isolate it from the main floor. Keep in mind a floor is no better than the sub base it's on. I see a lot of guys put decent money into a poured floor, but skimp on base prep. Good compaction and a good stone sub base for drainage is key to a good floor that lasts. We also saw cut the poured floor into 100 sf areas to help deal with cracking. 6" is the minimum thickness I'll do steel in a floor. I'll use rigid mats on 1 1/2" chairs vs roll wire pulled up into the pour. Most rolled wire never ends up where it will do any good anyways. It either gets tramped down to the bottom, or ends up in the upper part of the slab where it does no good. We use fiber in all our concrete slabs. It does a better job of limiting cracks than wire does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 My new shop was slowed up 9 months getting everything ready for the concrete but wouldn't do without it. Just easier to move things around, if you can plan for a hammer in advance and put in a nice thick pad would help. Dirt in our area in the spring can get soft and you track the stuff every where. Plan electrical as well and water if possible. Air circulation important and winter sunlight. accessibility to get truck or tractor to move heavy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Understood on the sub base. I poured a monolithic slab for my existing shop with #4 rebar tied throughout. All set up on a compacted stone base. It's held for 11 years with no cracks. Hopefully I can repeat the process. I can see the advantage of isolating a section for a hammer. I'll give that some thought. I'll definitely run electric and water as they are already very close to the building site now. For circulation, I'm planning a 10' ceiling minimum and, depending on the roof system I go with, taller in the middle. I was thinking about mounting an exhaust fan up high and centered on the rear wall to help vent the heat during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 My shop floor is half concrete and half dirt. The concrete section holds the machine tools which need to be on concrete (or something substantial). Forging, welding, cutting and grinding is done in the dirt side. So much easier on the legs especially as one ages. If planning for a future hammer, research foundation plans first. A proper hammer foundation is much deeper and has far more steel than a "footer". A great floor is made of end grain wood blocks. I think Glen (the site owner) has such a floor but I am not sure. The only downside to a dirt floor is tool loss and that depends upon poor work habits. not sure how the underlining occurred.Underlining removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 On the roof, insulation and or a parasal roof, sun beating down on the roof will heat it up and radiate heat into the shop at a much higher temp than ambient (just stick a thermomiter in your attic to see how much) a roof and celing like your house helps a lot, as dose reflective insulation combined with conventinal insulation. I visited Steve Sell's shop this spring and he placed a vent fan in the celing to clear any smoke that happend to escape his forge. Even with out insulation the high peak and vetilation made for a pleasant work space.as to dirt, many old manuals recomended it for forge flores, with other floring such as wood surounding it for work benches and such. I find that 1/4- with fines sets up nice and hard, a periodic srinkle if water (old manuals recomended doing so at the end of the day) helps you might consider a 12" square left open to seround the forge, your anvil(s) forge and post vice live in this area. The foundation for a small power hammer sould fit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 At this point I have the roof system narrowed to either wood trusses or steel span trusses. I plan on leaving an 'unfinished' ceiling if I go with wood trusses and if I go with steel trusses there really won't be a 'ceiling' per se. Either way, I'll lay insulation over the purlins before screwing the metal roofing on. For the interior walls, I'm thinking of going with the same board and batten as the exterior however I'll cover the wood with corrugated tin wherever necessary, even if that's the entire perimeter of the interior. Hopefully that will cut down the fire risk and still give a solid backing (behind the tin) to attach things.Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 my dads shop is built esentualy that way, the tin interior makes the shop brite as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If you ever plan on moving/lifting anything substantial, you may want to consider bulking up your framing in one section of the shop where you could hang a cheap electric or chain hoist . Sure wish I had something like that in my shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you ever plan on moving/lifting anything substantial, you may want to consider bulking up your framing in one section of the shop where you could hang a cheap electric or chain hoist . Sure wish I had something like that in my shop. What I wouldn't give for a bridge crane! I use my tractor/pallet forks to move heavy items in my existing shop, though the space will be a little tighter in this one. We'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I typed a reply however when I "Submit Reply" I'm sent to a screen that says I don't have permission on this server? Hmm...Is there a maximum length for replies? Edited August 5, 2015 by Light Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 More like a time limit. The new SOTware company who's pretending to write and maintain Iforge's platform is to blame. Unfortunately only the owner can contact them and they're ignoring him.Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL smith Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Dirt floors are great. So is a hoist but if you have electric available don't bother with the finger busting chain hoists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 When we built my Dad's workshop we sunk a 2" sch 40 pipe in the floor a couple of feet down, and poured a piling around it. It was towards the back wall, and centered with the roll up door. That way we had a place to winch from by dropping a pinch bar into the hole in the floor.Personally I like alternative construction techniques for my area to deal with the heat of summer.Earth berm, rammed earth using old tires, straw bale, etc. The thick walls act as a thermal mass keeping the temp more stable inside. I would also go overboard for venting. Smoke from forging, and welding need to be removed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Sidewall exhaust fans, set up high in the peak of your shop, are the bomb for venting the shop. They are best for high volume of air at low static pressure (basically the opposite of what is needed for a forge blower). Get one with a back draft damper/louver if possible to keep out the cold in the winter. I now like the Greenheck SBE line (belt drive, steel prop), but there are plenty of others out there. To get the recommended 10 air changes per hour in a 10' high shop of the size you mentioned you only need 800 CFM. That is a 2' square fan with a 1/4 HP motor. I think I originally got mine from WW Graingers. Remember to have somewhere for the air to enter the shop as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Charles failed to mention my exhaust fan in the ceiling is a 21 inch diameter gas ceiling heater fan I salvaged from a day job. it will completely cycle all the air of my 12.5 x 17.5 shop in 20 seconds. I tested it, so its good for welding, That can be a serious issue in winter. Many times keeping fresh air to breath is under rated, until you dont have it. but I do admit it can help in keeping it cooler in there also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 For ventilation, I have several different sizes of chicken house fans. The smallest is 24" and the largest is 48" I can install one or a combination of several to make the air move. The mentioned 10 air changes per hour... is that a minimum? Would there be a point where the fans were too large? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Ok, so I just talked to a local truss manufacturer and it looks like I'm going with wood scissor trusses that will leave a 4:12 interior pitch. This will allow for a 24" fan to be installed in the gable end wall. The one I have is rated at ~4700 cfm so I'm looking at an air change every ~80 seconds. The ceiling peak will be ~15' with 12' walls. I'll insulate above the finished ceiling and mount the fan as high as it will go on the gable wall. Hopefully this approach will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 For ventilation, I have several different sizes of chicken house fans. The smallest is 24" and the largest is 48" I can install one or a combination of several to make the air move. The mentioned 10 air changes per hour... is that a minimum? Would there be a point where the fans were too large?when your 4 x 8 sheet of material goes wafting off towards the extract fan/fans you might consider toning it down a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 when your 4 x 8 sheet of material goes wafting off towards the extract fan/fans you might consider toning it down a bitYeah, I was thinking the larger fans may just be a little too big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now