Zinc plated chain for use over fires?

[Curly]

How safe would this be? Being used over an open fire supporting a pot hanging from a tripod for example.

 

I know fumes from burning off zinc are extremely bad but at what temp does this start to happen?

 

Have some chain at moment so was wondering whether or not I need to go and find something else.

 

 

[Steve Sells]

this would depend on who you have sitting around the fire, for an X wife and her new BF it may be desirable, for your children, well re-read the safety info again and you should have your answer.

[MLMartin]

Having the zinc anywhere near heat while cooking is a bad idea. The zinc needs to be removed.

 

You can remove the zinc with some simple chemicals.  I believe if you soak the chain in vinegar for a day or two it will remove the zinc. Maybe also place the chain in something like a tumbler after the vinegar to help knock off any remaining zinc.Then wash the chain a few times.

 

Some chain can be bought un-coated. Also chain can be bought in stainless steel. This would be safer for food

[Nobody Special]

Well, not sure when it fumes, melts in upper 700s, so definitely by that point. Maybe earlier? Not even really hot enough to put out light. Could be that hot, and you wouldn't even see it. 

 

I've known of people to burn off the zinc by tossing galvanized steel into a fire, getting clear and keeping it hot, BUT......I've also heard of plenty of cases where someone didn't wait long enough, didn't get it all, didn't have enough ventilation, etc and gave themselves very bad cases of zinc poisoning.

 

Got it once while casting brass, and don't care to repeat the experience. Safety first.

[Timothy Miller]

Why don't you forge a hook from some 1/4" round the right size and avoid the whole issue all together.  Your a blacksmith right?

[Curly]

Why don't you forge a hook from some 1/4" round the right size and avoid the whole issue all together.  Your a blacksmith right?

 

Client asked for a chain and hook to allow for adjusting the height. Normally I sell trammel hooks to go with my tripods but they wanted a chain.

 

Anyhow, got the message loud and clear and confirmed what I thought esp as its for a client and not an x wife!! Thanks all! Will go out and get some stainless.

[Frosty]

Zinc isn't a hazard below it's burn temp or anyone who brazes would have coughed up their lungs and nobody would be doing it. I doubt you're going to be getting a chain cook ware is hanging from to the mid-high orange heat. Try putting a single link in the forge and heat it till you see the blue green (cyan?) colored flame so you'll KNOW what zinc's burn temp is. Don't breath the smoke but unless you're already sensitive a little isn't going to hurt you. Heck zinc is a necessary mineral, without it your skin cracks, becomes super sun sensitive and worse, basically you're screwed. Anyway, a little testing under common sense conditions and you'll know what the dangerous temp is and you can judge for yourself.

 

Exposing galvy to fire should be avoided but it's NOT the death sentence common thinking says it is. Buy or make black iron chain to be sure but a little testing will tell you if the application's dangerous.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Timothy Miller]

Ever forge chain?  It is a good exercise in forge welding.

[Curly]

Ever forge chain?  It is a good exercise in forge welding.

 

Currently cant get my gas forge up to welding temp :( but cant say I have and it is indeed something I would like to try!

 

and thanks Frosty, sounds like a voice of reason to me!

[ianinsa]

if you have the galv. chain, just stick it in warm/hot vinegar or spirit of salts and it will eat off  the galv. then paint with black etch primer. it works and is min. hassle.

Ian

[ThomasPowers]

I preferentially keep an eye out for rusted chain at the scrap yard just for this sort of thing.  Dragging it behind the truck on the old ditch bank dirt roads cleans it up a bit and then a vinegar soak if it needs more.

 

Old truck chains often have a great shape and patina on them

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Curley,

 

You can buy 3/16/and 1/4 unplated chain...  Or you can build a campfire 100 yards away down wind toss he in and come back in the morning...  No more problem..

[SmoothBore]

I designed molds for the Zinc and Aluminum Die Casting Industry, for about 15 years, and was in contact with those operations on a daily basis.

 

The most common Zinc Alloy, for casting, is what's commonly known as "#3 Alloy".

 

It begins to melt at about 700 F, and the "ideal" temp for casting is 788 F.

 

The alloy begins to separate around 1000 F, ... and the Zinc will begin to "burn", ... and give off a white ash, ... at about 1150 F.

 

 

"Heavy Metal Poisioning" is a serious thing, ... but in a well ventilated enviornment, it's nothing to fear, either.

 

 

I saw many more health issues arrise in that enviornment, from incomplete combustion of Natural Gas, in the Smelting Furnaces.

 

But you rarely hear anyone warn against the dangers of operating a Gas Forge.

 

 

 

 

.

[jcornell]

Pour some water in a plastic bucket.

 

Pour some muratic acid into the water in the bucket (always add acid).

 

Throw the chain into the bucket.

 

When the solution stops fizzing, the zinc coating will be gone.  Do this outside, as it will smell bad.

 

After that, figure out how you're going to finish the chain - perhaps a nice olive oil  infused with garlic treatment.

[son_of_bluegrass]

If you strip the zinc with acid (anything stronger than house hold vinegar), there are precautions to take.  Wear splash resistant goggles (even if you have a face shield on).  Wear chemical gloves.  A chemical apron is a good idea.  Depending on the strength of the acid and ventilation, an appropriate respirator isn't out of line.  Have a solution ready to neutralize the acid (baking soda works).  

When working with any chemicals, be prepared by studying up on the chemicals you plan on using so you know what to do if things go wrong.

 

ron

[IronHide]

I've been welding galvinized steel for years now and I can tell you that it can seriously mess you up if you breath in to much of it.  With that said a little bit won't do you no harm.  As a business owner I personally carry about 10 million dollars in insurance between Well head insurance and Corporate Liability insurance and the main reason I need to carry this is if I were to damage a well head or god forbid kill someone.  So as a business owner I would say the most important thing for you to consider in this situation is what YOUR liability is in this situation.  If you are contracted to make a utensil that you know for a fact is going to be used in food preparation and choose to NOT use food grade materials then any illness or injury is on you.

[Bruno C.]

 

Exposing galvy to fire should be avoided but it's NOT the death sentence common thinking says it is.

 

I would avoid anything plated, galvy or other like the plague.   I got badly sick from it though, so I'm severely biased.  Plus, the amount of cadmium that's put in things these days is unbelievable.  How do you know it's only zinc on that chain?    Anything related to food, I would rather spend the time and make a set of chain tongs and learn how to forge weld my own chain out iron I smelted myself in a hurricane than go anywhere near Zinc or Cadmium plated metal's again.   I would stick with plain iron chain, learn about proper removal of zinc/plating if that's the route you wanna go, or go with stainless.  Just be sure the stainless is stainless and not just plated with that nasty shiny cadmium crud.

 

Two Cents.

[David Einhorn]

The local farm-supply store is likely to have unplated chain.  It just doesn't seem safe or cost effective to spend the time removing plating and then dealing with the waste products.  Also the local antique/junk stores have chain so old and rusty that there is very likely no zinc left on it, but still if you are selling the end product to someone, just purchase unplated chain.

[natkova]

DO zinc kill immediately when you get in your lungs or you get sick. And after illnes you die.I mean is that death torturing because it's somekind choking.Like i hear  about asbestos. I mean do you have time to go to hospital.Or you die on place.

[ThomasPowers]

You can feel bad fairly fast especially with prior exposure; but generally you just feel very sick, vomiting, etc and then recover.  However:  it can cause pneumonia and it's pneumonia that is the killer.

[Rich Hale]

Realistically now: Don't use Plated metals in smithing for all of the above reasons. But think about wot you are asking here; If you use a chain to hang a pot from over an open fire, For that chain to get hot enough to burn off the zinc the bail on the pot, which may be smaller might have to reach an even higher temperature...maybe even a deformable under the weight of pot and product red?

The product in that pot would isolate that from happening unless the product was entirely consumed? And to carry on,,,Could only reach that point if someone was to continue to add fuel to the fire if its was a solid fuel. 

Jus sayin!

[BobL]

I agree with Rich. While zinc Melts at around 790F the amount of Zn vapour produced at its melting point temp is extremely low and the amount of ZnO produced at this temperature would be less than what would be coming out of your forge fuel or is present in normal air (see below). To make significant quantities of ZnO the Zn has to be at higher than boiling (1650F) e.g., commercial production of Zn uses about temperatures of 1750F. If the chain was at that temperature whatever was cooking in the pot would be well and truly on fire.

 

On this basis I'd say you would be quite safe to use it for your purpose.

 

BTW few people realise that air already contains relatively high amounts of Zn and ZnO dust. It comes from a wide variety of sources including natural and man made fires, soil/rock dusts, and exposed galvanised metal, but more significantly in urban settings from something called zinc stearate dust generated by motor vehicle tyre wear where Zn stearate (a form of soap) is used as a vulcanisation and tyre mould release agent. As tyres wear, thousands of tons of rubber and accompanying Zn are produced as a fine dust that moving vehicles throw up into the atmosphere and any light breeze will carry it for miles. The grey gooey dust that sticks to insect screens and air filters and computer fans contain significant amounts of this stuff. On its own Zn stearate is not considered dangerous but any of this dust that enters a flame or high temperature zone will be converted it into ZnO. I don't wish to scare anyone but to demonstrate that humans are already exposed and seem to tolerate some ZnO. 

[natkova]

I din't have right sheet metal so i used zinc one to make showel for ash.Is there danger using it.I have wood stove.And by the way why aluminium foil won't  melt in wood stove.

[Steve Sells]

Al foil can melt in a wood stove. Coke cans do and they are even thicker Al.

[g19605]

Smithin' folks don't like the looks of plated iron/steel anyhow, so don't even consider anything that looks shiny or that won't rust.

 

Use muriatic acid !!! I get it at Tractor Supply

 

You can cut it 50% or more depending on your preference. I even save used acid for a while since I use it a lot. Keep it in glass, preferably, or heavy poly. BUT, DON'T EVER STORE ANY LIQUID IN PLASTIC FOR THE LONG TERM.

 

George