Perato Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hi all, I've been wanting to work with metal for almost for about 5 years now, and my journey in the Air Force has finally given me time to pursue this interest. There is one problem I have run into though. I live in Alaska, and cannot find an anvil anywhere. I have heard of people using railroad rails as a low quality substitute and I am wondering if this is ok to start with. I want to start perfecting scroll work, tool making and repair and possibly blade making. Thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hi and welcome to IFI. I live near Fairbanks and your so right. Finding an anvil here is difficult. If you look up the Alaska Blacksmiths Association and join you may find one faster. Also, I may be wrong, I think they can get pieces of RR rail. Thats what I started with. Its a good substitute untill you find one. Also a railroad car knuckle. A large piece of plate. Say, 3.5" wide by 12" square. will make a fine anvil on end. Keep as much mass as you can under the hammer. A piece of square bar or round that is around 4" sq or round in a bucket of concrete is also a very good post anvil and many many knife makers use them as their primary anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you, I'll try to look around for some rail laying around the old railyards, I might get lucky. I'll keep an eye out for those plates that the rails attach to as well. I see about finding a metal scrapyard to see what they have lying around. So the most important thing is that the mass that the rail or metal is attached to is significant to bleed away the energy from the hammer blows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 How about a heavy chunk of Dozer? far better than a piece of rail Mass directly under the hammer is what's important. The japanese katana are forged on anvils that look like a rectangular hunk of steel. No heel, no horn and folks often consider them to be OK even if forged on such a simple anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I started out using a small section of rail then a train coupler knuckle and eventually an anvil. I was stationed in Kodiak and could get things brought up on a C-130. Check with some of the air crews and see if they might be willing to transport you one if you can get someone in the lower 48 to help on this end. Until then, the advice you've been given about scavenging up some large pieces of steel is sound advice. You will find a sense of pride in "making do" with what you have available. Good luck and thanks for your service! You can check with one of the metal shops on the base if you are at Elmendorf and you can also check at Ft Rich. There should be some machine shops in Anchorage. Mark <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I am in Anchorage, please do join us at the Alaska blacksmithing group on Yahoo, We have quite a few members and it would be worth posting a message for one. we meet quarterly and actually just had Brian Brazeal up teaching a class.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AKblacksmiths/ London pattern anvils are very versatile tools, but there were literally centuries worth of metalwork done with out them. master works of creative genius were wrought using any number of different styles and materials. PM me if you have any questions or if there is anything I can help with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yea, I am at Elmendorf so I will have to pop into metals tech and see if they have any scrap lying around that could be used. I am excited to get started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 I am in Anchorage, please do join us at the Alaska blacksmithing group on Yahoo, We have quite a few members and it would be worth posting a message for one. we meet quarterly and actually just had Brian Brazeal up teaching a class.http://groups.yahoo..../AKblacksmiths/ London pattern anvils are very versatile tools, but there were literally centuries worth of metalwork done with out them. master works of creative genius were wrought using any number of different styles and materials. PM me if you have any questions or if there is anything I can help with. I'll definitely join! It would be great to have some local experience as well as some people that know where to go locally for supplies and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluidsteel Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have 3 pieces of 2.5"x4.5"x18" and 2 ea 2.5"x6.5"x18" steel in the back of my truck got it free Friday from a forklift fork mfg here in town. I also picked up a hole fork from a forklift salvage yard for scrap price. Look around for shops that do work on forklifts... Also, call http://www.alaskasteel.com/steel.htm and ask if they have 4" or 5" square solid cutoff pieces.. You can do as small as 12", knuckle height would be great! For a forge, go to a plumbing/heating A/C co....Ask for an old freon tank. I assume Alaska has A/C??? Line the forge with Inswool and refractory cement. Buy/build a venturi burner and start hammering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Marksnagel: When I was welding for the Coast Guard on Kodiak in the late 1970,s there was a treasure trove of blacksmithing tools there at the South end of the island. Sailing ships from San Francisco used to come up to get Salt Salmon in barrels to take back South. I was there in a little TaylorCraft so couldn't bring back any of it. Complete shop!!! Perato: Even though there is a blacksmith association there(which did not exist when I was there) don't think they've gotten all the "good stuff". Alaska is a big state and there are old shutdown canneries all over the place. They all had shops. Start asking questions and snooping!!! Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you! I'll keep you guys informed on how everything goes. I'll try to put up pictures of how I set up my forge when I set it up this weekend. I was looking online and there is a place that sells a 4" X 4" solid steel block for 85 bucks. I'm wondering if that will work if attached to a 4 X 4 that's cemented into a bucket. I also found a supplier of coal in the valley that sells 50# bags for 10 bucks. Hopefully everything starts to come together soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 I will probably get started on some stock removal knives before I get my forge and anvil set up as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Perato,hi.Dig deeper into the maintenance dept.on base,USAF used 100# and 200# Vulkans(an inexpensive,in it's day,american-made cast iron anvil,VERY much sufficient for everything).The old tooling as well,as the guys said,but this is current(they're filed somewhere on the shelf in your transport maint.). 4" x 4" is great too,as long as you can get,but even a cube is bigger than most anvils used historically*. Yesterday i had to use an outer ripper bit off of a D9,it's over 60#,has a cool shape,and worked really well.Look for ripper blades/teeth around the base,and yes,like has been said,parts of fork attachements. Be leery of that coal:Soft Bituminous coal comes in many flavors,even from the same mine.What you found sounds like Usibelli mine stuff.Personally,i've failed to be able to utilise it(something about the type of ash that it makes).Also,it commonly has Sulfur inclusions quite visible to a naked eye(if you break some chunks)-not the best stuff for you. AKFeed in Fairbanks carries official blacksmith coal(not cheap,over $1 a pound now,not sure-ask Bryan).The "pickable" coal could be had at Sutton(east of Palmer),at the Buffalo mine and other of the same complex.There used to be a fellow who owned a streak of metallurgical-grade coal,but i don't think that he ever went into business. Anyway,try to find out where the source for that coal is,and try some before getting a whole bunch. And the very best of luck,no worries,tools will come your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don't tread on me Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 You could use a big rope cleet off a dock. They evan look kind of like an anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I have pieces of forklift tine steel 6"x 3" for sale $100.00 a foot , 67lbs. MAILED to anywhere in the USA . This is an anvil. In my opinion, rail road rails are good for trains to run on, and little else. You could do very well with this anvil untill you find a traditionally shaped anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 May I commend to your attention this method of making a great anvil from locally available scrap: http://www.marco-borromei.com/fork.html Of course I'm the Thomas mentioned and have the mate to that piece in my scrap pile here in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 That looks great Thomas! This is why I like working with metal, because with enough ingenuity, it seems like I can just make my anvil here locally and of course the forge as well. Really awesome way to recycle old steel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 The last time I bought coal at AK Feeds in Fairbanks it was $35 for 50 lbs. I really like it. It cokes up excellently and is my favorite fuel for forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Its a long drive to get coal, but I may have to do that if I can't find a good grade around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I don't know for certain but you may be able to talk them into shipping some down to you. Doesn't hurt to ask. The worst they can do is say no. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you, I'll try to look around for some rail laying around the old railyards, I might get lucky. I'll keep an eye out for those plates that the rails attach to as well. I see about finding a metal scrapyard to see what they have lying around. So the most important thing is that the mass that the rail or metal is attached to is significant to bleed away the energy from the hammer blows? the opposite, the more mass is used to rebound the impact from the hammer and in a sense hit from below, taking energy away "bleeding away " as you put it would have negative consequences. essentially, the more mass=greater rebound=less work for you, less mass/shock absorbant material=less rebound=more work for you hope this helps, monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perato Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 It does help, Thank you Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 If you ger a chance look at the anvil that Brian Brazeal made they work great and its just mild steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I started on a piece of RR rail but I mounted it vertically so that the mass of the rail was directly under the hammer. It makes a smaller work surface but it's more solid under the hammer. If I had to go back to rail I'd probably get 2 pieces, one vertical and one horizontal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. I'm in the Mat Su Valley just the far side of Wasilla, about 50 miles from the main gate of Elmendorf. I enjoy having guys out to play with fire and hit things with hammers. I can also hook you up with the Association of Alaskan Blacksmiths. I typically run Propane, in a home made forge and home made burners. I can point you to suppliers of the bits and pieces and better yet E.J Bartells supplier of high end refractories who gives AAB members a discount. So, shoot me a message and come on out. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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