TruckSprings Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 First off I want to say THANK YOU to allot of the contributes on this forum for giving me this idea, or opening my eyes rather to the wonderful uses of old leaf springs 1050 Spring Steel. After reading some posts I found out the old leaf springs make an excellent source of metal to make swords and knives --- even cross bows with. Being that I work for a company that sells new leaf springs, we come across tons of old ones that just sit there waiting to be scraped, and our customers have lots of these siting there too. So after doing some further research I decided to write an article with a brief explanation on how-to make a sword from leaf springs, and a look at some of the blades made with old leaf springs that our customers have sent in, or that we found on the net. again thank you to all the contributors in this community that gave me the idea!Mod note: url deleted as un paid advertising, also "used springs" are a dangerous choice of material for swords and knives, as is cold forging used springs. addition: this poster has not been back to IFI since this insane idea was posted, take that for what its worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 SORRY; BUT I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ON THIS ISSUE! Some very glaring errors in that: "one is the traditional hot method, melting the steel & then taking a sledge hammer and pounding it straight." Blacksmiths do not *melt* the metal! We heat it until it gets soft and then hammer it into shape. They have been doing it this way over 2000 years. Even the forge welding we do is a solid phase process. "Or you have another option that requires more strength and is also a method that has been used for years. Place you spring on an anvil on a very hard flat surface you'll use are your guide to making the spring straight. You then take your sledge hammer or steel hammer, and being to smack the curved metal along the anvil making it straight. Now doing either or these methods will provide you with a solid steel base you start your sword." The cold method is less than 20 years old and EVERY expert in the field considers suggesting it to be a serious liability issue---have you talked with your company's lawyer(s) and insurance agent about advocating a method so bad? You never mention "distal taper" what makes a sword a sword instead of a sharpened crowbar. I suggest you weigh your "swords" and compare them to real ones where for almost 1000 years of using swords the average weight was around 2.5 pounds---for a full size sword fully mounted and used in battle! I suggest you learn more about the subject before putting up a webpage that will mislead other folks who don't know the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I am letting more experienced people talk. I think a teaser article on the subject is a decent idea. There are uses besides knifemaking though, such as artwork. Welcome aboard Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 This is so wrong on many issues. I wont even bother except to say I hope your Insurance agent and Lawyers are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hello: As someone who has a bit of experience in metals and all..I have to be very adament in saying that the cold forming/straightening of a heat treated leaf spring is NOT to be done, nor should any "used" leaf springs be used for anything but the most basic items due to the fact that you never know what the crystalline structure of any given spring is. Most certainly you could "get away" with it for a while with no "problems" but all it takes is ONE tragic accident and you could be on the hook for the rest of your life. True, I use "recycled" materials like leaf springs, but I use those for axe/hatchet egde bits, lamination and other processes that involve the welding and subsquecent forging of these materials. This way any "problems" are corrected and the material is much "safer" to use. Besides new barstock is not that costly when you add up the fact that you know exactly what you are getting and what condition it is in... A dollar or two here or there is well worth it in ther fact that there are no "unkowns" as far as the material goes... Still...I would of liked to of read the article, but it is gone... I say DO NOT DO THIS....BAD IDEA.... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hey S&D spring!! i'm right down the street from you guys in Ronkonkoma! you ever want to get together and bang some hot steel let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Sorry to have given you a baptism by fire for your first entry onto this site; but we really don't want folks to hurt themselves trying things out---and we really want people to try things out! Many of us have done some not too bright things in our pasts---and a lot of us can show you scars and hospital bills from them. Learning from our experiences can be a whole lot cheaper and less painful then having to repeat all that stuff yourself---You can go on and make new and interesting mistakes and teach us then! Wow, take Sam up on that offer if you can; he's doing some crazy work hot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ab Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 A friend of a friend made a crossbow from used material. It shattered and a shard went right into his heart. He was dead before he hit the ground, right in front of my friend. I am not joking, but I am trying to scare you. I can sure understand wanting to make a crossbow, but if I was you I would find a highly experienced crossbow maker (not some weekend guy, but a pro) who was willing to supply the right materials and allow me come to his shop and show me how to do every step. There's lots of forging-type stuff that a beginner can do relatively safely, but this isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 G'day folks, This is my first post here and I'll start of with a question that will highlight my complete ignorance of the subject. Having read the above, could someone clarify for me whether:Multiple choice: A.) Cold Forging is considered dangerous. B.) Cold forging leaf spring material is dangerous. C.) Using leaf spring material, hot or cold, is dangerous. D.) All of the above. I'm a total novice who is just doing the finishing touches on a basic forge. Although I have no intention of making swords as discussed in this thread, I certainly don't want to do anything stupid ;-) I did try googling this but didn't find a clear answer. Cheers Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hello: To answer your question..and this is just my opinion..others may or may nt disagree... When you hammer on a hardened pierce if steel you can cause micro-fractures, stress and fatigue..all of which can weaken and damage the material...and otherwise "set it up" foir a catastrophic failure.. NOT something I would want. "Cold Forging" is a misnomer..it should be cold FORMING..which is quite common..especially in the manufacturing of rifle barrels. It's an A-OK process as long is the proper materials and the proper techniques are used.... Used leaf springs?? well...ANY recycled material is more os less a "mystery metal" as far as I am concerned. Yeah I use old leaf springs for edge inserts in axes...in pattern welding and the like but by the time I get done..any crystalline problems that particular piece may have has been refined, corrected and eliminated to the point where you would never know it even existed..if in fact it ever did. NOW...using an old leaf spring IS a good way to learn how to harden and temper "carbon steel" (to a point) but I strongly suggest that you do not make anything that if it should fail..could cause injury to the user or to a "bystander".. Now I use old leaf springs for tooling like punches, cutters and the like..and if it breaks..so what? I am the only one that would know... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 ....To answer your question..and this is just my opinion..others may or may nt disagree........JPH Thank you for clarifying and contributing. Best wishes to all as always, Dave E. personal ID of another member, removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepy Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thank you very much JPH for the reply. Makes much more sense to me now. Cheers Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hey where did trucksprings go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I thought you guys did the honorable thing and buried him after you beat him to death. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 tons of good for nothing truck springs. send then to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin70 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So if you bring the old leaf spring up to a good non magnetic heat, bang the piece straight and then work it like any other blade it would be fine, but the "cold method" is bad juju, that I understand. As far as "mystery steel" goes, as long as it sparks fine, its ok right. any steel you get unless its straight from the maker is mystery steel until its proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Hey where did trucksprings go? Speaking as a person that did see the post before the link was removed, it appears he was a typical spammer, not wanting to be a part of us here, only to push their wares, and make some money. I still hate the idea of a sword being made from used (abused?) springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I found the link, PM if you want it. nothing much other then some pictures from the site and stuff. I took a walk on saturday, took a look in they're scrap bin, LOTs of springstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Ronin70: well working it hot is *less* likely to cause problems; but if a spring has fatigued enough micro cracks may have already been created. You need to work it at forge welding temp to "heal" those. If the spring is tired but not past it's limit; forging temp is past the dislocation climb temp and so work hardening issues will disappear. The problem is trying to figure out what state that spring is at! So "new" springs being changed out to jack up a new vehicle---probably sound. Old springs found broken on the side of the road---probably cracked in other places as well. Buying spring steel drops at scrap rate from a place that makes springs---probably sound and you can get the alloy used as well! Rusty pitted springs found in junkyard; well pitting is generally a bad sign! etc USW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Great description Sir Thomas ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Angler Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I have a bunch of old leaf springs with light rust on them and i plan to make knives and when i get more skilled make swords but what exactly is cold forging and what makes it dangerous? Also are old leaf springs a bad choice of metal for knives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Old leaf springs, Bass, are a "bad" idea for knives and swords. Unfortunately, there is no way to know if there are micro cracks in the steel until you've done a ton of work to get that blade nearly finished, if then. With a sword, the blade for very easily snap into pieces sending a chunk of sharp metal flying off to parts unknown. Heaven help anyone standing down-range when that happens. The biggest problem with using old leaf springs, though, is that you don't know what metal you're working with. Not knowing that crucial information means you cannot properly heat treat the blade to maximize it's potential for strength, edge retention and resilience. Unless you send a piece of each spring off to have it analyzed, you're just guessing and hoping, and that is not a recipe for success. Furthermore, as far as knives are concerned especially, leaf springs are rarely the right starting dimension for the knife you want. You'll spend a lot of time and energy, never mind sandpaper and grinding belts, to thin down a leaf spring when you could have spent a few measly dollars on a blank of 1084 or O1 that the right length, width and thickness to begin with and gives you a solid idea of what needs done for heat-treating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Cold forging is hammering on the metal cold. There is *1* website out there that advocates this as a method of straightening leaf springs to make crude swords from (basically sharpened crowbars several times heavier than 1000 years of Medieval using swords). That method is so full of "FAIL" that it's a wonder insurance agents aren't calling him day and night to sell him liability policies! As an alloy 5160--a common alloy for automotive springs is a pretty good one for blades, especially longer ones. However as mentioned previously *old* springs may have already reached their fatigue life. Be especially wary of pieces you have found along the roadside broken as the failure mode is to have several micro cracks form of which one propagates catastrophically (breaks off) leaving the others hidden usually to be found around heat treat or final polish time. Much better is to source spring stock drops from a spring making shop---bought for scrap rate. Or find a place that does lifting or other work that entails removing the standard set of springs and replacing them with a different set and get a set of springs with almost *NO* miles on them. I had a student who worked at a place that converted heavy pickups into EMS vehicles and they discarded spring sets with under 100 miles on them every day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aden Cassidy Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I am not suprised about the crossbow shattering, because it probaly was bent beyond its limit as well. Also by using a leaf spring technically it would not be a crossbow but an arbalest, these were the cranked variety, slow firing but made to take DOWN absoluty any target it hit. Even fully armored at a range greater then any normal crossbow. I like the springs for my knives, also like using it for the guards cause of its durability and strenght. Ask calala how I go at making em out of it, belong to the same club. Got some nice ones, some of my best went mysteriously missing though. just need to get leather for sheathes now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I have to wonder aboiut how bending a spring farther than its intended limit would cause it to shatter. Seems to me like if it were to be heat treated correctly and was free of cracks that have been talked about alot on here the spring should be able to be bent a long ways. The ABS folks require that knives put through their testing process have one end clamped in a vice and the other end bent to a 45 degree angle. And the blade must not fail. I am not sure if everyone of those blades are 5160 but everyone I have read abouit or seen has been. I suspect tht none of them submitted for this test are from used springs. I have also seen lots of well made sords bent at angles the are beyond that angle and no faillures, I am not a maker or user of a cross bow or arbalest but it does not seem to me like what the material is made from would determine the name of the object. It for sure seems like the strength required to cock the mechanism would seperate the two types. Aden maybe you could help me undeerstand the difference in the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.