Mainely,Bob Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 As someone who has never had much money I have to agree with KYBOY. There is no way I could afford a nice Harley when I started out so I rode a Triumph at first and learned how to fix it myself then customized it and sold it for enough to buy an old Harley,learned how to fix that and soon was building them for others and now have a Snap-On toolbox full of overpriced but money making tools,most of which I bought used. I couldn`t afford to pay for ornamental ironwork so I learned how to do it myself and soon was hammering out stuff that people wanted to plunk down cash for.After taking the time to practice and learn the trade I could go to the nearest boatyard,haul home a load of scrap and turn it into cash.Now I have a small lathe,milling machine,brand name welding machine,torch set,etc.I learned how to repair and make tools and now do that for added income.I never let an old tool or machine go to the scrap yard if I could help it.I rebuild them and either sell them cheaply,trade them for what I need or give them to someone who needs and will appreciate them.In return those same folks bring me what I need for cheap and sometimes for free. Skills are the real high dollar commodity and you can`t develop the proper skills without the tools.Mow lawns,dig ditches or wash cars if you have to but get or make the tools.Once you have the tools you can develop the skills that will make you money and then money will no longer be a problem. As we`ve all seen,if you buy high quality used tools at a decent price, take care of them and treat them right they can usually be sold for at least what you paid for them.In the mean time you made a pile of cash with them so why complain about what they cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 LOL! I missed this thread completely cause I kept thinking it said "Chesapeake Blacksmiths". Who cares about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Now that's funny Grant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Grant, You're not the only who though they were talking about "Chesapeake" blacksmiths! I guess I'm one them cheapskates too, come to think about it. I mean it don't make sense to pay $7 a pound for an anvil when you can get it for a $1 now does it. Now ifing you can't no way find one this side of Kingdom come, what is wrong with paying $2, $3, or even $7 a pound for a tool that is going to last us our lifetime and that of several more folk. Like Bob I have tried to buy quality tools that last, there is little benefit in buying crap thinking you are saving money, being cheap and buying cheap are entirely two different things. When I was active many of my tools were shop made and have lasted very well. However I didn't make my anvil, power hammer, leg vise, welder but I did make many of the tables, stands, forges and other things that I was capable of. I saved a lot of money and made most of what I spent on quality tools back and then some. In being a "cheapskate" doesn't make you cheap it is more or less making you frugal which is making you wise in the use of your money. When I bought my big Fisher anvil it was priced at considerably more than the prevailing price of anvils at the time but it was and has been worth that extra amount of money. It was worth the extra $1 a pound at the time in the time it saved me over what I had been using. It was sure a "cheap" buy in the long run. Quality tools are never a waste of money. The thing that is a waste of money is paying too much for something you only think you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 "being cheap and buying cheap are entirely two different things" Hear! Hear! It's funny that it seems like none of my tools are from HF and yet most of them cost *less* than buying them new at HF would. (and if you want to throw in the effort to locate and buy them into the mix please remember that the nearest HF store is about 80 to 100 miles away and the stuff I buy is *local*) I'd rather buy top quality tools that have been used but not abused for 20-30 years than to buy bright shiny new chrome covered crud. Of course picking up a snap-on ratchet off the side of the road where it makes a sharp turn doesn't hurt much either and the exercise of bending down to pick it up is good for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 this is a fun thread ! i consider myself "cheap" but if i really want it i can buy stuff(triphammer from larry) it just takes a long time for me to come up with the money... but if its not sumthin i really want i can be real cheap! i get guys bringing me stuff to the shop sometimes and other ask what stuff is worth i tend to evade that question and ask to see the item... cause one guys "good shape" is sometimes my totally worthless and sometimes pristine and people dont know what they got! i tell um ile pay a "reasonable" price but not top dollar ... i really dont need more tools but dont mind collecting more ! i generally pass um along to smiths that need them more than i do.if i got a good deal ile give a good deal (maybee not as good as i got) but if i didnt get a good deal then it was something i needed or wanted badly and ime not sellin it anyway .prices on used or antique equipment is always hard to judge value cause its what the market will bear ! value is easy with new stuff but antiques ...to us its tools with a history but to some its a"voice from the past" and pricless you wont find another!! of course if it is really something a lot of people want theyre will be someone to make a new one (power hammers is one example) it might not be exactly the same but it will do the same job...ime not sure if blacksmiths are any worse than the general public tho .... everybodys tryin to get somthin on the cheap... just look how hf has taken off as far as sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Mainely,Bob Posted Today, 04:27 PM As someone who has never had much money I have to agree with KYBOY. There is no way I could afford a nice Harley when I started out so I rode a Triumph at first and learned how to fix it myself then customized it and sold it for enough to buy an old Harley,learned how to fix that and soon was building them for others and now have a Snap-On toolbox full of overpriced but money making tools,most of which I bought used. I couldn`t afford to pay for ornamental ironwork so I learned how to do it myself and soon was hammering out stuff that people wanted to plunk down cash for.After taking the time to practice and learn the trade I could go to the nearest boatyard,haul home a load of scrap and turn it into cash.Now I have a small lathe,milling machine,brand name welding machine,torch set,etc.I learned how to repair and make tools and now do that for added income.I never let an old tool or machine go to the scrap yard if I could help it.I rebuild them and either sell them cheaply,trade them for what I need or give them to someone who needs and will appreciate them.In return those same folks bring me what I need for cheap and sometimes for free. Skills are the real high dollar commodity and you can`t develop the proper skills without the tools.Mow lawns,dig ditches or wash cars if you have to but get or make the tools.Once you have the tools you can develop the skills that will make you money and then money will no longer be a problem. As we`ve all seen,if you buy high quality used tools at a decent price, take care of them and treat them right they can usually be sold for at least what you paid for them.In the mean time you made a pile of cash with them so why complain about what they cost? +10 to Bob for this perspective! I've bootstrapped my shop up from a lean-to behind my parent's house with home made bellows, an anthracite fire and an anvil with no heel. I've mown lawns and pounded nails, bought and sold tools, sold hand forged things, etc. in order to buy more tools. Now I have a nice shop that can (usually) pay the mortgage and my truck is only about 10 years old. Bob (and Larry in earlier posts) suggest an additional variable in the cost/benefit equation- don't forget to think about how you can buy, use, make profit, resell, add it all together, and repeat. As a small potatoes business person I feel the following is true. The price of a tool I buy FOR WHATEVER PRICE is an investment for later resale. Even if my return remains flat (perhaps beating the stock market in recent years) I will still have MADE MONEY selling product produced from said tool. Perhaps the best part of this process practiced over the years is the learning that goes along with it. Bob's box full of Snap On tools probably wouldn't have done much good to him as a 17 year old. But add xx years of buying, using, selling tools and product, and the price of the tool will be insignificant alongside the value of the product produced and the information about the tools inside the head of the person using the tool. Buy a tool at any price, really learn to use it and what you spent on the tool will become INSIGNIFICANT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I haven't gotten to the point yet where I have enough items to sell. Hopefully this spring I will start to sell items at craft shows and then I can start to build up my tool and equipment. I'm just starting at the bottom and am looking upward. God willing things will look better after I start selling enough things to pay for this habit. That's all I ask for, enough smithing income to perpetuate the habit. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Larry, saying all blacksmiths are cheapskates is like saying that all blacksmiths are bal....er....follicly challenged. Come to think about it, I have seen a lot of them on here. Oh well, anyway, I got most of my tools by selling product and putting the money back into the kit. Then sell a little more and buy a little more. Now, I'm a hobby smith and haven't made all that much that I could pay the mortgage, but I make enough to supply my blacksmith habbit. I just try to watch for the "good deals" and I know that I complain about some of the prices, but I gotta let of steam. Dang, this has been a fun thread to read!! Keep 'em comin' boys!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Lots of good stuff here... And I dont mean to imply that all blacksmiths are harder to pry a penny from than it is to squat thrust a 700lb Peter Wright... I just mean to say that as a whole we are not known to throw money around haphazardly... We tend to dismiss how hard it is to do something and just say "why pay money for something I can do" Ok its only $9 and its going to take you 37 hours to make... But its still seen as "saving" money.. As for tools being an investment.. I am a true believer.. The right Things have to be bought right for that to be true, you cant just go spend a ton on junk and think its an investment... Most everything in my shop has been upgraded time and time again... I'll buy what I can find and when a deal comes along on a better/newer/faster/bigger one I'll snatch it up and sell the old one... Its my skills as a tool trader that has built my shop, not my skills as a smith or business man... I am not "cheap" I spend a lot of money... heck I spent close to 200 grand last year... I almost never have any... it flows through my hands like water... It still pains me to spend "real" money on something or have to buy it "the hard way" (any time you have to pay retail price) Sometimes it pains me for a long, long time... I bought software for my CNC cutting table a year ago for $1000 and I have been struggling to learn to use it... every time I open my computer and see the Icon I feel disgusted about the cost... Its all about perceived value.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I think what you're talking about here Larry is not just us but is rampant in humans at large. Ever had a client that has the really big bucks and weedles you to death over $20 a ft more or less on the price of a railing? Then a client who is worth far less, not question the value of your work and pay for for the good stuff. These tough times can make nearly everybody a skinflint , not just us. Not long ago I needed a new air die grinder. What I really wanted was an Ingersol Rand, USA made tool that would outlast me and possably my son, but the reality was I had to go to to harbor freight and be part of the cancer that bleeding this country white......mb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ouch... Yeah I have 4 of those good $500 IR die grinders... I think the most I paid for one was $40 at the pawn shop B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Pawn shop, dang why didn't I think of that?................No dig intended. I have strong strong feelings re the never ending drain of our $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Die grinders are a great pawn shop item.. Any time I see a Dynabrade, Dotco, or the good IRs I snatch them up.. I probably have 20... Most would have had a new cost of $200+ and most cost me $15-$25 bucks I got a rack of air grinders right behind my work station with vairous tools in them, beats having to change them out all the time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmHorus Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I bought my LG from Larry at what was an incredible price, ya I started out trying to get the price a little lower but I realized after thinkin about it that, with what I can get done with it saving me time and wear and tear on my back it was worth the investment. I am finally getting close to being able to put out work, just some tweaking on the forge tomorrow morning and I start twisting up a large batch of cable. I just bought 2 new hammers from Brent Bailey not only cause they look cool but I needed some good hammers. And I didnt blink at his prices, nor did I blink at the price for the forge, because to put one together myself would have cost me the same if not more in material time and effort not to mention frustration. I've found some deals, heck I think most of us have at one point or another. But yea we all try to stretch that almighty buck as far as we can. But I also hunt the pawnshops for things I need, they are a great source sometimes for tools and bits and pieces. Ill still ask for lower prices and try to haggle down a bit, but thats part of the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Die grinders are a great pawn shop item.. Any time I see a Dynabrade, Dotco, or the good IRs I snatch them up.. I probably have 20... Most would have had a new cost of $200+ and most cost me $15-$25 bucks I got a rack of air grinders right behind my work station with vairous tools in them, beats having to change them out all the time.. Just bear in mind that some clown bought all those tools for $200+ each and his flashy car/bike/boat and the house that was way above what he could afford before he pawned(for 5cents/$), gave back to the bank and was liquidated doing his xxxxest to help the world economy into a giant hole! I recon if more of us(economically active people) were thrifty and really understood what we actually can and can't afford it would be better for all. I once offered one of my guys a new 200 amp invertor dc tig/arc welder including torch/cables etc. for the local equivalent of $130.00(what I was paying)and he said it was too much so he bought a regular oil cooled arc for $80.00 retail. A few months later he bought a new bike(financed) with monthly payments of $270/m this was repo'd about 9mths later! Whilst I see myself as cheap I think kindly of you guys as Frugal for prefering inexpensive over cheap Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Larry, some of us,like myself, have been frugal from the beginning. My folks grew up during the Depression, and kept their ways. I learned from them by observation. My motto is, if I have the cash,I can afford it. I also look at tools with a cost benefit eye. I have scored some really great deals on tools, machinery, and supplies over the years. Some were strictly for resale, others for convenience. I really don't NEED most of the specialty tools I have, but I got them really inexpensively (10 cents on the dollar for the most part). In some cases for less than a rental fee. I have stuff for plumbing, electrical, wood working, etc. Shoot I have a better Greenlee Super Tugger than the contractor did that did some work at the old shop I was working for. Someday I will hopefully be able to build a shop, and possibly redo my home, and when I do I will have the tools to do the job myself. Besides I couldn't pass up $10K worth of Greenlee gear for $1K. With smithing stuff I also factor in how fast I could make one as opposed to buying it. What I find funny is that I will be a total cheapskate, or go without on something that is just a couple of bucks, but I will drop a grand on a really cool tool, or firearm without batting an eye. Priorities. When it comes to paying more than the going rate, in gun circles the phrase is, You never pay too much for a gun. You just bought it too soon. In other words the value will eventually catch up to what you paid. Some tools appreciate, some are still depreciating. Smithing stuff was dirt cheap, but it is on the upswing as more people get into it, and the word gets around of values. Yes, there are still some scores out there. I have found a couple over the past 2 years here. But in general prices are headed up. Although the recent economic trends has dropped some prices as people need to pay the mortgage more than they need certain items, and buyers are strapped for cash themselves. We are all individuals, so we all have different pain levels when it comes to buying things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I know even up here in Maine the tool collectors are very active and some of the old yowlers who empty out old tumbled down barns just refuse to buy a computer and go online to sell their goods."Why should I when I can just sell to you" is their motto as I walk away after buying a tool for $3 that I KNOW I can turn for $50 because I have the numbers of 3 guys I know will gladly buy it for that and think I did them a favor. In some people`s minds a computer costs several hundred dollars and their flea mkt table only cost $10 or $100 for the summer.Gods bless `em. The one thing most people (Thom Powers excepted)forget is that all those old tools your see on the tables are just what was easily carried to the truck by that old coot behind the table.I always ask about the stuff left behind.This last summer I could have picked up 3 nice anvils in the hundred pound class for a dollar a pound.Bought a nice 150 PW for $100 for my son and got a rusted out forge(which we fixed) with a dandy Champion blower on it thrown in for $35 extra.The reason I got all that was I was willing to drive and help the fellow I had bought woodworking tools from load what he wanted first and then once Jerry had his truck full I asked about the "heavy stuff headed to the scrapyard".I stayed the day and helped both Jerry the WWer(because he`s a friend and found the stuff) and the old guy who owned the barn (because some day I`ll be old and need help too). I got another blower from Jerry for $25 about a month later and a sweet 6" post vice from a friend of the barn guy for $25.The fellow with the vise got my number from the barn guy. It pays to be nice,and honest.All prices were set by the folks who owned the gear. My youngest son(he was there and helping)was amazed and incredibly happy about his new gear and even more tickled that Dad`s money bought it and he can pay it back in installments. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 A funny story comes to mind. Somewhere back in the 80's I was rooting through a junk yard owned by a Mr Morrison. He was in his 90's or more and had more hair growing out of his ears than I had on my head! Which ain't sayin much. It was full of old wagons and mostly just crap. Whilst digging through the detritus of lives long gone I got some battery acid on my fingers, and rubbed my eye. PANIC! I howled Mr Morrison please let me into your house to rinse the acid out, he was a little reluctant but said ok.When I got inside about 14 cats went flying in every direction. I got to the sink and relief . When my vision cleared I saw it, leaning against kitchen table was a beautiful 19th century 6" jaw post vice. I tried to gather my wits, counted what I had in my pocket and faced off with Mr Morrison, after thanking him. I whipped out a $100 bill (pretty good offer at the time) figuring he could no way resist and said I'll give you a 100 bucks for that vice in there. He said "yer tryin' to tempt me with that hundret dollars", I carry it out to work on the wagons. Cripes the thing weighed more than he did........I couldn't go more than a 100 so I said goodbye. 6 mo later he gave in, looked like he really needed the 100, but I could see it pained him......................... I'll always think of that ol' fellow with his hairy ears and 14 cats when I use It.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 That is a good story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 OK, once again I am taught a lesson. I say taught because I seldom learn from them. Being a tad tight with the purse strings, (mostly out of necessity) I am always looking for a bargan. I had gone through my last hacksaw blade and needed to cut some iron. On monday I went into Ace Hardware and bought two packs of blades for $2.99 each pack. There were two blades in each pack. My previous blade which finally gave out on me lasted a long time. It had cost me $2.99 per blade. Well here was 2 for the price of one staring me in the face. Today, saturday, after much anticipation I broke out the new blades so that I could start on the multitude of things I wanted to make. Put a new blade in the saw, went to cut a piece of 3/8ths solid square stock and couldn't get past 1/4 inch deep. All the teeth had become rounded. I didn't even wear the paint off the side of the blade. How do I know the paint was still there? Because plain as day it read, MADE IN CHINA! Dumb me. Shoulda got the good blades. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 its hard to come off the hip when you can go to the shop and make it...thats what were about as blacksmiths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavala Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I've got mechanic friends you have wrenches that cost more than my anvil, I know I use the anvil more than they use those hi dollar wrenches. I asked a a friend who had a real nice snapon tool box how much he paid for it, he said considering there's about a hundred thousand in tools in there all garanteed for life not that much. If you want nice things and want them to last then you got to pay for em. You're not worth anything without tools and the more and better your tools the easier the work becomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordcaradoc Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 When did my name change from Dave to John...? Hey, we're all cheap, frugal, savvy, whatever you want to call it. Most of us do not have an unlimited budget when it comes to tools, (whether we want to admit it or not- LARRY). Sometimes, it's OK to wait for the great deal, sometimes you just need to pull the trigger. I rarely regret my purchases, it is the ones that I passed on that come back to haunt me... -DB D'oh! Sorry about that David. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I've got mechanic friends you have wrenches that cost more than my anvil, I know I use the anvil more than they use those hi dollar wrenches. I asked a a friend who had a real nice snapon tool box how much he paid for it, he said considering there's about a hundred thousand in tools in there all garanteed for life not that much. If you want nice things and want them to last then you got to pay for em. You're not worth anything without tools and the more and better your tools the easier the work becomes. If I was a young mechanic starting out , wanting the best, I'd have to check on craigslist or ebay for them high end wrenches first. Full retail isn't my first choice ...mb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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