Posting Courtesy

[Quenchcrack]

At the risk of making enemies of a lot of people, I would like to suggest a few ideas to keep the transfer of mis-information to a minimum.
1. If you have no experience or expertise in particular topic, please listen first. I think we all get tired of the posts that begin "well i dont know anything about this but i heard...."
2. Please be aware there are a LOT of highly experienced, professional metalworking people who visit here. They can spot BS a mile away.
3. If you post BS, expect to be politely challenged almost immediately. Assuming a humble posture and admitting your ignorance will get you more respect than trying to prove you are right when we all know you are wrong.
4. Consider the possibility that the old man who filled your head full of mis-information was just yanking your chain for the shear fun of it. Maybe he wasn't a blacksmith after all.
5. We have several graduate metallurgical engineers who post here and more than a few folks who have learned enough without the degree to practice as a metallurgist. We would all be happy to explain some of the mysteries of metals. Please give us the chance to do that before you start in with item #1 above.
6. The goal of this forum is to transfer REAL information from those who have it to those who need it. If you don't have it, we don't need it.
7. While everyone on this forum deserves respect, plan to earn a littl bit of it yourself. In turn show some respect to the old timers who helped make this board the credible source for good information.
8. Most of us want to help newcomers. Forgive us if we are a bit skeptical of a young person with no metalworking experience jumping in and telling us he wants to make a sword as his first project. Some of us have been smithing for years and would not tackle a sword. Listen to the voices of experience; we only want to give you advise that will keep you safe and help you learn.
9. Nothing is more educational than a good debate. Feel free to challenge any ideas you read here but make sure you keep it civil and you know what you're talking about.

OK, end of rant. Any one else want to add to the list? Keep it polite, please.

[Frosty]

On the topic of respect.

Everyone I meet has my respect, automatically, without asking or need to earn it. From that point on it can grow or diminish.

Your choice.

Frosty

[Steve Sells]

I will add: While this forum is mainly adults talking about work, we welcome children to join in, as long as they act responsibly and we have many members that are children, and they are wonderful to have around here

This does not mean having fun is bad, but when people repeatedly post nonsense, its annoying and too much is spam. If a person posts nonsense too often, then Staff will step in and polity "advise" them about spamming, as not all spam is a clear "Buy my stuff" type post.

We are close to 9,000 members and that's a lot of work to keep this site going, we cant do the repairs and general maintenance while we are distracted by removing spam, or correcting misinformation.

I would like to remind all the membership, that everyone admins, mods, etc, here at I Forge Iron are volunteers, and we only have so much time available to do the work needed here, its a shame we have to spend so much of our time dealing with other things, rather than trying to improve the site.

Edited May 19, 2009 by steve sells

[unkle spike]

There is no shame in typing a reply to a question......until you hit that "Post Quick Reply" button. I try to re-read my posts a couple of times before hitting that button, and there have been more than a few times what I typed didn't make it into the forums, because I asked myself "am I adding to the topic, or muddying the waters", and deleted it prior to that.

[Finnr]

Quench! You hit the nail on the head dead center!
Finnr

[Ted T]

Thank you Quenchcrack !!!!!!
It needed to be said. (Now I may be put into the dog house also)
The tail should not be wagging the dog as it seems to have been doing lately!
Blacksmithing can be, and may be extremely dangerous to a person who is un-able or not willing to follow the critical path of applied basic blacksmithing skills safely.

Many times I could not do justice to giving an answer to a question that had been asked.
Yet, I knew where to find the answer that had already been addressed in a very detailed and profound manner.

I see where people have got upset about some of us providing a reference to old posts.
I have referred people to some of the old posts not because I was lazy, but because I knew that some of the old posts contained some of the very best written explanations of process

[Thomas Dean]

Well said one and all. I hope I have not posted to any thread information that is not correct and accurate to the subject. Although sometimes i have tongue-n-check comments but those should be obvious. Thanks to all of you 'wise ones'. TDean

[keykeeper]

I vote that this become a sticky that appears at the top of the list for every forum section on this site. That way it will be viewed over, and over, etc......

Thanks Quenchcrack for starting this thread, and thanks to all the others that have posted already in this thread, as you are some of the most active on this forum. I respect you all, and read carefully what you all say each time you post here. You folks are the part of the backbone of what makes IFI what it is. I would mention the others, but fear I may leave someone off the list.

[Rich Hale]

Once again another great thread on a subject needing addressing, However I do not for a minute believe that the folks this is meant for either read it or know what it means....Ok the soap box is open,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[lanchie76]

can i play devils advocate for a moment

has any of the admin team looked into why the same questions are being asked or started a post asking people their thoughts on what they think would make this site better?

i must admit i still have some trouble finding things on this site but this is the only forum i visit so i cant say im a expert on them. when i started watching this forum i couldn't find a thing. sometimes when we get used to using something we forget how hard it was to learn.

i'm only asking because i've been reading this forum for a while almost everyday and have started to see the grumbles of the senior members about the repostings of the same threads.

i would hate to see this site loose the experience of these members or have them not answering questions from newbies (like me).

remember im not having a go at anyone, i believe the admin do a great job and dont want to increase anyones workload

Ben

[Rich Hale]

BEn I can relate the problems I have had: You are not the only one that has issues finding things I am a charter member of that club....So many times when I have posted references to what I thought would be valuable to research a need I have posted links. All ya gotta do is left click the link and somehow it takes you right there. Then the nextday or so the same person posts the same or similiar question again when for sure they had been given the information. I believe they want us to just type out a short answer and they can move on. however some questions cannot be given a fair shake unles it gets lengthy. Therefore I have used links as I know someone else has spent al ot of time writing it all down in the past. I do not think the brains on this forum will leave over this. And I do believe that they will continue to help the new folks with all they know. But for those very few folks that seem to ignore good advice and ask questions that almost seem they just want to see something they wrote in print on the Net, I think for them the information will not be so fast in coming.

[Glenn]

The newly registered member starts TODAY, and has no working knowledge of the past, or what has been done to get the site where it is today. They ask the same questions one more time, where is the bathroom, the lunch room, the location of the electrical outlets, etc. Like any newly hired fellow on his first day at work, they must be shown.

There is a lot of information on the IForgeIron site. The only real way to locate an answer is to let the search engine to go out and locate the key words you ask it to find. Read those answers and refine your search. As you become better at asking questions, you get better answers.

If anyone has the perfect pill, please contact me immediately. In the mean time suggestions are always welcome.

As Rich said, apply the information to your problem. Once you show folks you took the time on your end, they will take additional time to provide more information. You are simply requested to provide feedback in order to get better answers.

[anvillain]

I know I'm guilty of at least one occasion of asking a question that I could have found the answer to by searching a little. I have not had trouble finding things when I do search. It may be the sheer abundance of information makes us ask something that was well covered before. I would certainly be glad to follow a link that someone has pointed out to me. In my case, I also miss a lot of posts because I may miss several days before getting back to the site. Probably by now, every conceivable subject has been covered and can be answered by prowling the site.

[nonjic]

All good stuff folks, but I believe the original point of the thread isnt about answering new members questions with links to old threads (which is very a very useful way to help someone out, bit like someone saying read this book and this book, when you diddnt know the titles), but rather about posting information that isnt correct in reply to someone elses questions !

[GobblerForge]

And yet from another angle, being considerate of others posts. Many times I have felt stepped on and corrected. As I made my first posts, the questions were genuine. I didn't make them to be sent somewhere else or be trivialized. They were important to me at that time because that is all I knew. Then as I progressed a little, and wanting to help give some back, I'm sure I gave some incorrect advice at some point that I truly felt was correct. I'm sure I didn't do it so that some more experienced person could belittle my answer with his. This rarely encouraged me to answer more. Now as an advanced blacksmith, I am more able to recognize when a younger reply is not quite correct and I try to be encouraging while corrective and not be insulting in my replies.
Gobbler

[jimmy seale]

i reckon weall guilty of that...as for me, the more i learn the less i know !

[jimbob]

I think part of the problem here is no one knows what the other persons day job is ...you don't know who you are talking with or what their knowledge base is there are a few people like Hofi who's name precedes them ...If you don't tell us who you are no one knows!

Edited May 20, 2009 by jimbob
added last line

[keykeeper]

But for those very few folks that seem to ignore good advice and ask questions that almost seem they just want to see something they wrote in print on the Net, I think for them the information will not be so fast in coming.

You are spot on with this statement, Rich. I call these folks "forum junkies". They seem to take little advice from the topic being discussed, only the satisfaction of watching the number of posts reflected on the top right of the post header going up, up, up.

I have experienced these folks on other forums I frequent. My conclusion is they must be independently wealthy and have little else to do with their time.

Sometimes, when I click new posts on this forum, I will see a string of threads in the list, with all the new posts showing to the same person, usually a newly registered member posting to several different subjects within a time frame of mere minutes. One post will be in the "introduce yourself" section, then the others will be all over the map, ie:blacksmithing, power hammers, sculpture, bladesmithing, etc and so on. Sometimes this will be new members with years of experience, but often it turns out to be the very same people this thread is about.

End of rant.

I'm sorry if I rambled on, but since I have very little fabrication skills, and I've got this rock, a hammer and a propane torch, I'm gonna go build myself a power hammer to make this sword I saw in a movie. Will a leaf spring work if I quench it in butter, as I have no oil?:D Edited May 20, 2009 by keykeeper

[Dragons lair]

My 2 cents worth. I seem to see a lot of " Tell us where you are." Can't we make that a requirement to join.

I also note that we have many older smiths who are junior or members, many school students who are senior members. Seems the faster you type the higher you go. A welcome to every new members or a wow to every post = senior. How about posting your background. IE 30yrs welding vs 30hrs of school. Having built 300 of these vs I heard, read, my teacher/mom/dad said. I have had dads in my shop
tell their kids that heliarc is helium injected arc welding.I think I have read every post on this site at least once. My background is
40yrs welding/fabricating 2yrs smithing and still learning.

Sorry for the rant must be the old timers kicking in. I'll go sit in the corner now.
Ken

[Bully]

Ken wheres that corner cause I'm just happy to sit and listen....

[chrisfrick]

Spot on post, Quenchcrack. Point taken--I'll stop asking questions now. :)

[Glenn]

The point of the thread is to suggest a few ideas to keep the transfer of mis-information to a minimum.
Asking well thought out questions in order to learn is always welcomed.

[keykeeper]

Asking well thought out questions in order to learn is always welcomed.

Sorry, just had to highlight that for anyone just tuning in to this discussion. I think your statement sums up this thread and the desired end result very well. Edited May 20, 2009 by keykeeper

[Fe-Wood]

Correct me if I'm wrong- but I thought this forum was based loosly on a running coversation about smithing. I ignor the post and posters that are nonsensicle but I welcome debate and valid oppinion weather I choose to agree or not is up to me.
(butter may not work for quentching but lard may, works as a flux anyway)

One truth I try to live by when dealing with other peoples ideas is there are as many ways of doing something as their are people trying to do it, idiots need not apply. If I listened to all that said "that can't be done that way", well lets just say some of my best work would not have happened.

There are basic principles that hold true throughout all the trades, its how one arrives at those princables, thats the challenge.

For all the posters who feel slammed by this thread, learn from it but don't go away. For anything to be realavent it needs diversity of oppinion, idea and knowladge. If we all talked about the same thing in the same way, how boring would that be?

An Artists perspective-

[Sweany]

SO, where is the Luchroom? :)