Ahh Jimbo I'm a bit confused: by the time regular borax is molten it is anhydrous borax so I read your statement: "Anhydrous Borax does not eat the floor of you gas forge the way Anhydrous Borax will"? Tis a puzzlement to me.

I thought I said regular borax meaning 20 mule team..I was also thinking Gas forges. as that is what the people at NCtools told me ! anhydrous borax does not run the way 20 mule team does.
Its my understanding that to make anhydrous borax you start with 20 mule team put it in a can or fireproof container and put it in the forge/fire and boil it;then after it has cooled (looks like a glass) regrind it to a powder.
Is this your understanding or am I confused?

Edited May 19, 200917 yr by jimbob

Anhydros Borax is in fact borax that has been melted and reground to powder. From my experience making it is a pain. Buying it costs more than 20 Mule. I use 20 Mule, and add around 10% boric acid as my regular flux.
Finnr

Unless you're going to bother keeping it in a watertight container, going to the work of making it anhydrous is a waste of time as the borax will absorb humidity and you'll be back to square one. At least that's my understanding anyways so I haven't bothered and haven't had any problems.

i (tried) using boric acid. it bubbles very little (based on hearsay it is my only flux so i have no comparison). but hey it works and it de scales everything.

If you just HAVE to have anhydrous borax make a heavy steel pot with a handle, like a deepish ladle with a stable flat bottom and put borax in it a little at a time because it'll foam up the first time you melt it.

If you plan on doing any welding just place your Flux Pot in the forge till the borax remelts. Once it's melted you can pull it out of the way but keep it where it'll stay hot enough the borax remains molten.

Now you can simply dip what you want to flux in it, or dip a little out with a hot steel Flux Dipping Thingy. (FDT) Think a modified honey dipper, a spoon, etc. It'll be thick and sticky and won't foam at all.

Another idea is to have a Flux Spoon large enough you can melt a bit of borax in it as you need it without the foam getting all over everything.

Lots of ways to do this without the hassle of baking, melting, cooling, grinding and dry storage.

Frosty

I can't remember where I read it but another way is to heat up a pointed metal rod and dip it into your borax until a bunch melts ontoit and then use it to apply the melted borax to the piece. Supposedly much better control over where it's applied. Would work with a honey dipper type of flux dipper too.

i like the hot rod idea ...you could get pin point distribution that way . I like that!

i heard that a salt shaker welded on a handle will work, but i have only used the hot rod and it works.

i like the hot rod idea ...you could get pin point distribution that way . I like that!

I was thinking and it may work better with some spiral grooves a little above the point to hold more flux.

i am a fan of not having to weld, but that is beacause my forge is not hot enough. but it is a skill that is useful even if you do not need it.

I was thinking and it may work better with some spiral grooves a little above the point to hold more flux.

well the light blub is going on ...going to have to play around with this :D

Just sprinkle it on with a spoon.

????/ Very much a "newbie" Duh! What's a Y1K Bloomery??/

JR Da Gnome

????/ Very much a "newbie" Duh! What's a Y1K Bloomery??/

JR Da Gnome

The way they made iron in 1,000 AD.

Welcome aboard, glad to have ya.

If you'll click "User CP" at the top of the page and edit your profile it can make a big difference. IFI is represented by members from more than 50 countries and a lot of info is location specific. If local folk know you're there they can invite you to gatherings, tip you to tool deals and offer hands on help.

Frosty

I use either no flux, or Black Magic flux made by Jon Nedbor depending on which way the wind is blowing at the time I am welding. The nice thing about the stuff he makes is that you don't get that white stuff growing out from your welds as time goes by. Cleans easy, works very well. P.M. me for contact info-if it's ok with the site I will post it.
Mark Emig

I was working with an absolute beginner at our club meeting today. He had never hit hot iron before. We used EZ Weld and he stuck his first forge weld. Of course, he was a bit better coordinated with his hammer than a lot of beginners but I believe in EZ Weld. The only down side to it is the rough surface it leaves around the weld, but this can be brushed or filed away.

Hand Forging by Thomas F. Googerty, published 1911
Pgs 52,53 Found on anvilfire.com

"Iron can be welded without using any flux. However, in some cases a good, clean, sharp sand should be used, because this forms a fusible mixture or slag which offers a protection to the iron, excluding the air and also tending to promote an even heat. Borax should be used on iron only in welding very small pieces. Some soft steel can be welded without using a flux, but it is always advisable to use one of some kind, such as sand. A good flux for soft steel is made by heating a piece of white marble red, letting it cool and pounding it fine with a hammer. . This is used in the same manner as sand."

I thought I would contribute this little piece of history to the converstation.

would mixing some boric acid with borax help when forging some nickel into a billet? If so, what would be the right proportions to mix together? Any help on this would be very much appericated Leroy

I don't think I would try it. It sounds VERY toxic.

I have seen and used anyhydrous borax flux and borax, but what are all of the possible fluxes you can use? Any recipes for one? And are there any benefits to any of these?

I use the Anti-Borax flux, basically silica, boric acid and steel slag. A lot of the commercial fluxes or traditional fluxes work. There are also some with flourite/flourine for welding stainless, but they are nasty, from what I have heard.

Are you looking to make your own, or is there an availability problem? or just curiosity?

Curiosity. Would like to try different ones. I use borax.

Boric acid is a standard ingredient in many flux recipies. Not particuliarly toxic if use with respect and not around pets and small children. Dosage is the factor.
Remember that it is both and antispetic eye wash and a roach poison.

Nickle alloys are welded by knife makers all the time using borax fluxes. As with all forge welding joint prep and a neutral fire with correct techinique is more important than the composition of your flux.

Edited August 23, 200916 yr by Charlotte
spelling

I use a local guy's secret flux mix, called "black magic", works great!

Heres one for ya. Steve Kayne at blacksmith depot uses mud daubbers nest if pressed for flux. Normaly uses NOTHING. Proper clean, proper heat, proper hit. Best thing is what works for you.
Ken