pip Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Hi guys do any of you know a good substitute for borax. I am about to make some Damascus steel. i have borax but, it is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Where are you buying borax that it's expensive? 20 Mule Team is just a few bucks for a nearly five pound box at Wal-Mart. That's enough for a lot of welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Some people use wood ash as flux. Some use clean sand. As someone pointed out to me recently, it'a also possible to weld mild steel without flux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pip Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 thanks i am buying off of Ebay. I checked Walmart they did not have it. i live in a small town Mississippi they do not carry much at my local stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 It's in the laundry aisle. If you don't see it, ask. I just looked at a couple dozen Wal-Marts in Mississippi (within about 50 miles of Oxford, Tupelo and Hattiesburg), and they all say they have it in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecelticforge Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 thanks i am buying off of Ebay. I checked Walmart they did not have it. i live in a small town Mississippi they do not carry much at my local stores. Ace hardware may have it. It is the only place I can get washing soda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Ceramic supply houses have an anhydrous form of borax that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pip Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 thanks guys you are a lot of help. what kind of wood do you use i used to use oak but that did not work well. i am using high carbon tool steel for broad heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Mud dauber nest pounded into a fine power will work here in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 what kind of wood do you use i used to use oak but that did not work well. Elm. If you can't get that, use hickory or ash. If you can't get either, try a dense maple. You want a strong stringy springy wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connor bachmann Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 sand, wood ash, iron filings, I've seen them all used. I use borax but am thinking of mixing it with sand, I hope it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarthesmith Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Hi guys do any of you know a good substitute for borax. I am about to make some Damascus steel. i have borax but, it is expensive. you can buy borax pretty cheaply in rural agways and general stores, they use it for laundry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 You can buy 20 mule team online. Here it is for $1/lb. http://www.buy.com/prod/20-mule-team-natural-laundry-booster-borax-76-oz/q/sellerid/28612218/loc/66357/205676200.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pip Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 thanks i bought some borax at ace 5lbs for $5 a lot cheaper than ebay. all i need to do on those broad heads is fine sharpen them. i will be hunting by next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Adding sand to borax will make it a poorer flux. Adding boric acid to borax will improve it---boric acid $$$ at the pharmacy or *cheap* at the hardware store as "Roach Pruf" Clean Quartz sand was the traditional flux for real wrought iron which can be welded at a much higher temperature than modern alloys *and* did not need as aggressive a flux as modern steels either. (I started a billet Saturday at the Festival of the Cranes, 21 layers of band saw blade and pallet strapping: did the first tricky weld, drew it out---used dividers to locate the center line, notched and folded and did the second weld. Then had to let the coal forge cool.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Adding sand to borax will make it a poorer flux. Adding boric acid to borax will improve it---boric acid $$$ at the pharmacy or *cheap* at the hardware store as "Roach Pruf"... What does the boric acid do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 makes it more aggressive but not so much more toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 makes it more aggressive but not so much more toxic. I just ordered some boric acid on ebay. 10# for $33 inc shipping. Not very expensive. I was wondering if mixing it with borax would stop it dissolving my forge liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I suspect it'll work the other way, although I doubt there'll be a big effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 I suspect it'll work the other way, although I doubt there'll be a big effect. My thinking was that it might neutralize the alkalinity of the borax. I'll try it and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 At high temps I don't think borax is alkaline. Buying a pound of roach Pruf locally for $5 seems a better deal. If you are going though 20 pounds of flux in a year you are going way beyond my usage! Roach Pruf is 98% boric acid and 2% colouring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 At high temps I don't think borax is alkaline. Buying a pound of roach Pruf locally for $5 seems a better deal. If you are going though 20 pounds of flux in a year you are going way beyond my usage! Roach Pruf is 98% boric acid and 2% colouring. Borax and boric acid supposedly both break down to boron trioxide at high temps, and that's what dissolves the metal oxides that interfere with forge welding (and probably the oxides that most forge linings are made from). It kinda makes you wonder if mixing the two really accomplishes anything. I have experimented with using straight Hot Shot boric acid roach killer as a welding flux, but only on a very limited basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 At high temps I don't think borax is alkaline. Buying a pound of roach Pruf locally for $5 seems a better deal. If you are going though 20 pounds of flux in a year you are going way beyond my usage! Roach Pruf is 98% boric acid and 2% colouring. its posted on another thread, but has a Ph of 2.2 at our typical welding temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Well thats interesting info about the degradation to Boron Trioxide and the ph. I will have to see what happens in practice. I looked for roach powder in my town but couldn't find it so I bought from ebay. If the roaches ever show up in my house they will be xxxx sorry! I add brake drum chips to my borax and find it really helps. Just another recipe in the Black Art of Forge Welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 He simply sprayed WD40 between the layers and heated to welding temp and press welded the layers into a 1" billet (30 ton press). His technique produced the cleanest, inclusion free weld possible. He cut a cross-section of the resulting 1" billet and we were all amazed at how clean and solid the interior of the billet was - simply beautiful. I'll try that this weekend. I'm working on a length of chain (first forge-welding project). Would the weld set if I could get it pressed in a table vise quick enough, or would schmucking it with a hammer work too? I'm very new to forge-welding, and I've only been able to get one to set, and that was pure dumb luck. Wish me well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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