stevomiller

Frosty thanks for the distillation of information, your sharing is much appreciated. So it would appear then that the tapered tube would improve flow and increase the entrained air to fuel ratio on a jet ejector burner, but since they can already provide excess air to feed the combustion it’s not needed. Would I guess then that a tapered tube with a throat equivalent to 1/2” pipe would use a gas orifice the size midway between that used in a 1/2”and a 3/4” cylindrical tubed burner, as a starting point? Or do I have to start with the 1/2” size, evaluate the flame, and work up in size stopping before I reach a rich flame, so that I can then tune with the sliding choke? If this is an unknown that’s ok, I know I’m asking a ton of question that aren’t relevant to any of the common “build yourself burners”. Is it possible it might provide better air/fuel mixing than the parallel walled tubes? It would definitely slow the velocity of the burning flame, which could be better or worse depending on the exact application. And have you or Mikey played with fuel nozzle orifices designed to provide shaped discharge? In the past at work I’ve used precision nozzles that made 10* to 60* cones, both solid cone or just circular ring/empty core spray. It might be a method to either optimize the volume of entrained air or help with homogenizing the air/fuel mixture. Best Steve

Mikey, back to your injector burner from your book. Have you ever used the slotted air induction with a flared mixer tube, such as the industrial inline burners use? Can it add anything to the performance, or is it ill advised and going backwards? I’m still trying to fully grasp all the interactions and physics of the different designs. I ask because I have access to some taper flared stainless and cast iron tubes for reasonable cost I might experiment with as a side project. If I do, should I use the narrowest part of the throat and pick an initial gas orifice used in a straight iron pipe mixer tube of the same ID? Or somewhat larger due to less frictional losses and back pressure (my assumption not claiming this as factual)? Asking more for a nudge in what might be the correct direction, and not trying to suck your well dry. I’m happy to experiment and develop on my own, but am so new at this I don’t want to pursue a fools errand unwittingly.

Dang Mikey, that last line says it all in most pursuits one dedicates themselves to deeply, and is a great reminder for all of us in life. I’m at this same point in my engineering career. The young ones under me come in hungry to learn but a little over confident, and I start wit high hopes for them. Then they get a few years under their belt and they know everything but what they don’t know, and make themselves as the end all and spend as much time selling themselves to management as actually working on issues. I’m not enlightened yet, but I’ve tripped on my myself and eaten enough self baked humble pie, to realize I have not even scratched the surface of my profession.

I tried Googling multiple permutations of the maker, and my Google Fu was not up to the task at hand. Not one hit, nothing, nada, nichts. Perhaps you might have better luck with folks on your side of the pond? Hope so. Regardless, that’s a fair $150-200 vice over here, and the tool collectors ask/pay more, so great score.

Nope, but that’s a great price for a complete 5” vice in the condition shown!

3/8” seems ideal, that’s about what my old Champion cast iron on was. If you are burning coke and not coal, would you not want a deeper fire pot than illustrated in that pic (3”)? I only tried premade coke, as opposed to my usual bituminous coal, a few times, but it seemed like I really had to force feed it air. 3” seems like you’d still be in the oxygen rich zone of the fire.

Howdy Greg! Really sorry he’s been grieving you, you seem like a very stand up business man producing a much desired product using great materials and quality manufacturing methods. Hopefully he doesn’t now head after the Emerson’s, Jymm Hoffman, and Steve at Incandescent, or any other current quality US makers. The knucklehead PMd me and said essentially I’m an idiot because you (Holland) does make an H13 anvil and I should keep quiet if I don’t know what I’m speaking of. I guess his reading comprehension is worse than his ability to ask questions. I had stated, as can be read in above posts, that there are no production wrought H13 anvils (as in forged to shape), only ones that are cast. BTW what would approx shipping costs be on your 190 and 250 to San Jose, CA?

No idea but it’s darn sexy and I would love to own it! Congrats! Wire brush and oil her up so some of her former glory shines thru!

Daguy, I know nothing so hope to learn from your last question as well! Im really enjoying you and others sharing your ideas, progress and even the failures. My gut tells me materials with lower thermal expansion rates would be less likely to crack, and a material that is more insulative might have less issues with causing preignition at low pressure/flow rates. Finding also the right thickness to control thermal mass and therefore issues maybe when you first turn down the gas from running it hard. All speculations from a guy (me) with zero gas forge experience, even less NARB experience, just a runaway mind that likes to design and troubleshoot things.

Thank you MOD34 for the explanation and sorry for getting my knickers in a bunch. Have a great weekend, Steve

Kane, you might want to be a bit more civil with others. You came here and made a statement of what transpired between Holland and yourself with an attitude, then asked a question that was so poorly worded that you COULDN’T get an answer that satisfied you, then you cop an attitude. As far as what time it is, you might assess yourself as far as that. To answer your question AGAIN, yes you can cast H13, and yes Holland DOES cast anvils in H13. If you want more information on the properties of ductile cast iron, Google it, and then refer to material science and metallurgy books or websites and figure it out. Admins, please send me a message stating what Kane quoted from me that was GARBAGE and over priced spam, I put nothing in this thread. Additionally you edited his original post without putting comments the post, which now completely changes the content and tone. Curious methodology.

Additionally, there are alloys that have two receipes: one for casting items to finished shape, and one that is wrought (rolled at the mill) and then is forged or machined to final product shape. A wrought anvil of any iron/steel steel alloy is constructed by hammering said alloy at temperatures of 2200 F MAX down to perhaps 1500 F. A cast anvil, regardless if carbon steel, tool steel, ductile iron or “cast iron” is made by melting said alloy and pouring the molten metal into a mold made of sand or refractories. Wrought anvils, especially those made of wrought iron, can have the grain of the material follow the general shape of said anvil. Cast anvils do not have this feature. Whether it’s better in anvil could be argued til the cows come home. Forged anvils might have welds that could fail or have cold shuts and delaminations. Cast anvils can have porosity in the basic material due to production methods and variables. As for the two alloys you mentioned, not the production methods (there are NO production H13 wrought anvils available) H13 is a more expensive material, with much higher tensile strength and Charpy notch values than ductile iron if they were both heatreated to say 50-55 HRC. Hope this is helpful, as your question was not worded clearly, and seems to point to you not being particularly well versed in production methods nor materials. best Steve

If the reducer gives you trouble you “might” be able to cure it by removing from the TEE, and then mill/drill/grind/ream a nice V shaped lead in, or a taper and radius, to the ID that screws into the TEE. Blend the surfaces that lead from the TEE into the pipe nipple burner tube. Essentially like doing a ported head and manifold on an engine.

Glad you got final satisfaction, and also that you didn’t immediately put the makers name out there, even though he didn’t take care of business at first. I’d second the notion that possible scenarios were that the maker grabbed the wrong material, was sent the wrong material, or skipped the heat treatment (as stated it would have been turned from FULLY annealed.

Mike Porter, who literally wrote the book on this type of burner, states that use of holes for air inlet ports is not ideal, that you should use rectangular slots (no arc at the end), and that an odd number (3-5) of slots is better because ports aren’t directly opposed to each other, which can add flow disruption. If you don’t have the means or desire to make said slots, then purchase a 1”x3/4x1” TEE and build a Frosty T Burner. Like I stated previously, use a KNOWN PROVEN EXCELLENT DESIGN if you want success, they don’t cost any more in materials to build than one that isn’t, why deviate from what others have worked the kinks out of? What you have drawn will work but still isn’t the best use of the materials you have on hand. Once you build a known good (proven and perfected) design, knock yourself out experimenting, you might then end up developing the next great burner.

On my Buffalo and Champion I used thin .02”~ Manila folder and RTV. I agree the drip/splash oil is probably what it was designed for. Degunk it, assemble axle shafts in with light grease, lube the gear teeth with oil and then oil it ever so often thru the oil hole up top.

Bob, you are taking the right approach. You will find that there are quite a few folks here that have spent literally years working through the details of what makes a good NA burner, how to tune them, etc....

I’m new to gas forges, so not even a wannabe let alone expert. However, all the dimensions you gave don’t follow ANY 3/4” normally aspirated burner I’ve researched. Your tube is way longer, and the gas orifice is TWICE the average diameter (so almost 4x the area). Others with a lot of experimenting with these will give you particulars on your set up. I, however, can only say read the BURNERS 101 thread, and get some solid info and theory under your belt. Then build a known working design without your own embellishments: that thread details the T Burner and Mr Porters burners.

Mossy, that’s not quite true: yes it’s not tool steel, but medium carbon steel, but your hardening information is wrong. If it is induction heated, the heat zone can be much thinner, which can quench faster, and will indeed be in the 50’s. FWIW, Old World and Euroanvils were a high manganese 1040~ and the hit the 50’s RC. It only takes .4 points carbon to get you there, and if you want deeper hardening other element such as used in 4140 or 8640, which are both used by well known anvil makers.

So it being S7 explains why it’s both hard and durable, it’s airhardening PLUS designed to handle shock and impact, and BTW that’s a nice anvil and stand you made. I do stick by my original assertion tho that at 1/4” thick I’m really surprised that errant hard blows don’t cause cracks, even if hairline. That’s why JLP asked if it had a medium hardness underlayment or backer. Putting that under it kind of mimics how shallow hardening steel behaves, you have this nice real hard top surface to avoid wear and dings, a bit deeper it’s hard enough to not plastically displace but not so hard it will crack, then deeper yet unhardened material. However, with all that said, the proof is in the putting, and you’ve used it for ten years to good effect and without the issues I was concerned about

Looks very Armitage MouseHole-y to me

Foundryman, I’m glad we have more American choices in new anvils, and that you chose to use tool steel as opposed to ductile iron. For those that think H13 would be used just because of it’s hot hardness, and thus overkill, not so. It is an outrageously tough steel, it actually has Charpy notch break test values HIGHER than S7, which is a steel designed specifically to handle shock without cracking.

Steven I agree with Thomas, try and get the Fisher. As for the EBay thing, I was protected so to speak when I scored it. If it was cr@p, I’d turn in an expense report to work, get my $$$ back, and leave it there for my techs to abuse doing the odd job. It ended up being properly heat treated carbon steel and not cast iron or mild steel, so I never turned in my expense report and kept it. Your situation is different, unless you are willing to gamble, spend $150, and if you get junk try and unload it on someone at a yard sale or Craigslist.

Zeroclick, have no idea whatsoever for brand, but it sure looks old to me. It guessing it’s native to your area, it resembles the Yorkshire pattern anvils I’ve seen, but I’ve also seen some old French and German anvils that were similar (early 1800’s). Whatever it is it is really cool and I’d be happy to use it!

Really nice! Any makers marks? The pattern looks like English or American in style, German and French tend towards a different style box/hinge. Perhaps it’s locally made even, I’ve examined any made in Scandinavia.