Mikey98118

Since I'm the one who keeps harping on about the importance of building a forge with the flame angled away from heating stocks (round forges) or with the ceiling far enough from the floor (square forges) to keep the flame from impinging on heating stock, I can answer your question about flame lengths; since different burners make different flame lengths and since flame lengths also vary by how far the burner is turned up, there can be no pat answer; it is a judgement call on the builder's part. Since most people find little reason to turn a burner on full blast, the flame for a box forge can be measured for length at a maximum of 20 PSI gas pressure and that can be used for a good height measurement in box forges. You want the length to be at least two-inches beyond secondary flames. No practical forge can avoid tertiary flames, so construct and tune your forge's burner well enough to avoid making them.

20 gallon tanks are about the biggest that are advisable. Two-inch wall thicknesses are usual, but I would go with three inches in such a large forge. Don't use more than one-inch thick layers at a time or you will find them nearly impossible to keep anywhere near uniform/manageable. Rigidize and fire each layer before laying the next one, to fit collective errors from building up. You will need two 1" burners eqaually spaced at one-third distances on the shell.

On the other hand, the thinner the rigidizer is mixed the faster and deeper it penetrates into the ceramic blanket, so what to do if it is too thin? Fire the blanket to set the first coating in place, and then rigidize all over again. Want to have a better idea of how the process is proceeding? Then mix food coloring into the rigidizer as a visible clue; it burns out during firing. Finally, it seems that most guys have way too much concern over getting the fumed silica to water ratio "correct." Perhaps this worry comes from a mistaken idea of how rigidizer works and what it is for. The fumed silica becomes colloidal particles when suspended in water The water flows over the ceramic fibers allowing the particles to accumulate at the cross-sections everywhere that the fibers intersect; those intersections are welded together during firing; this is what strengthens the blanket. The residue of silica that remains on the lengths of fibers is so thin--no matterr how much rigidizer you use--as to contribute nothing to the strength of the blanket. By the time your are rigidizing your forge's insulating blanket you should have a working burner with which to fire the rigidizer. You can rigidize and fire the inside of the forge all at once, or use the burner as a hand torch and rigidize and fire the blanket one area at a time.

There are several accounts of how to build a forge. If you don't want to spend the time reading up enough to understand what you are doing, Larry ZoelerForge will show you how to build a forge his way. Ron Reil's forge pages will show you how to build a forge his way. Wayne has a website showing you how to build a forge his way. You can buy an old copy of Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns, learn how to do it my way and then sell the book back to someone else. Or you can download a copy from a pirate site and put up with their games. Anyone of these paths will end with you owning a good forge at a good price; choose...or don't.

This ain't rocket science No secret fumed silica to water ratio has been given in these pages. I have stated repeatedly that people can mix the fumed silica into the water until it gets too thick for the spritzer nozzle to handle, and then add more water. There is no perfect ultimate ratio; that is a myth. Handling rigidizer is easy; don't try to make it into something complicated already!

No secret formula is given there. I have stated repeadedly that people can mix the fumed silica into the water until it gets too thick for the spritzer nozzle to handle, and then add more water. There is no perfect ultimate ratio; that is a myth.

If you double the height of your exhaust opening, then you can use brick in front of it (not right next to the opening) to allow exactly the right amount of exhaust for whatever input you run the burners at, while reflecting most radiant heat back into the forge.

I think your exhhaust opening is too small; that wioll choke burner performance. I also think that your forge needs to dry out more.

There are two kinds of decisions guys make: the kind that can be easily changed; or through the kind that ends up at "through it out and start again". There are lots of burner improvements you can still make, but none of them are vital. Your forge is getting hot enough and I don't see blue flames in the exhaust gases. Further improvements will only ease your fuel bill, so go enjoy your work. The next improvement you really want to work on is providing a hot-face coating to further protect your insulation and your lungs.

Well, I'm seeing a pretty hot forge there. The next question is "are you happy or not?"

The tapered tip is only long enough if the gas tube is 1/8" schedule #80 pipe. The three air openings are good, but need finishing; grind their forward ends square, and then bevel their inside surfaces, so that their knife edges are on the outside. Grind the back of the air openings square; grind them up even with the protruding lip of the reducer fitting. Then unscrew the reducer, and grind away the protrusion from its lip. Next, grind a bevel into the end of the reducer, so that when it is screwed back onto the mixing tube air will flow past it and into the tube smoothly.

The flame on this burner is perfect when it is mounted in the forge. That is all that matters to me. Is it identical to the burners I build? Of course not, nor does that matter. Any burner that ends up with the right flame within a forge is more than good enough

I am not discussing the flare of a flame retention nozzle; why would anyone want to give it a knife edge? I am thinking of the forward edges of your burner's air openings.

If you used refractory mortar/cement, it isn't too late to overlay it with a light coat of castable refractory or Plistex, etc. Basically, mortar/cement isn't able to deal with direct flame impingement. That said, what's done is done, and you should just move forward. You are wrong about moving the burner closer to the exhaust opening; it is common to see forges with the burner close to this opening; that doesn't make it right; it just means we get tired of pointing this out. Intentionally or not, you put the burner in the right place; don't move it.

Being able to view exhaust flames comes very late in the burner and forge build, but not too late. Improving burner performance is usually just a matter of making small incremental changes that were left out in the original build, until the flame is hot enough to suit your forge.

Let the burner fit the forge A soft flame, with a primary and secondary envelope, doesn't need to be precisely positioned in order to impact away from the center of the forge floor to avoid burning the heating stock. Loads of guys find that to be a valuable contribution to forge building because forge ports that don't need to be canted on an angle can be mounted with large nuts, in the Larry Zoelerfashion. I have spent years promoting the hottest hardest possible flames because they save fuel and burn clean; the downside of this is the need to build the forge as exactly as the burner. Most people don't want to work that hard; especially on their first forge. What I consider to be a mediocre burner (producing secondary flame) can make a comfortable fit with a more relaxed forge build. where do we draw the line? Look at the exhaust gases; it should be expected that some of them are blue in this forge. Blue exhaust flames indicate fuel that is still burning. You can bet that such an exhaust is producing carbon monoxide; a small amount can be handled by a powered exhaust system or by using the forge outdoors. A lot of Co will present a health hazard whatever you do; don't go there.

As to interest in viewing a forge with twin smaller burners (1/2" maybe?), there is plenty of interest; good luck on your build.

Soft flames There is a lot to be said for a flame that is hot enough but also is soft. A soft flame doesn't need to be precisely positioned in order to impact away from the center of the forge floor to avoid burning the heating stock. Loads of guys find that to be a valuable contribution to forge building. I have spent years promoting the hottest hardest possible flames because they save fuel and burn clean; the downside of this is the need to build the forge as exactly as the burner. Most people don't want to work that hard; especially on their first forge. What I consider to be a mediocre burner can make a comfortable fit with a more relaxed forge build. where do we draw the line? Look at the exhaust gases; it should be expected that some of them are blue in this forge. Blue exhaust flames indicate fuel still burning. You can bet that such an exhaust is producing carbon monoxide; a small amount can be handled by a powered exhaust system or by using the forge outdoors. A lot of Co will present a health hazard whatever you do; don't go there.

I think about these changes a lot, but each new generation has to consider what to keep and what to discard, while the latest generation of idiots try to convince them that "it's a brave new world" and other hogwash. machinistalk, I like the way that burner is working in that particular forge. It is plenty hot enough, but also has a soft flame. A soft flame doesn't need to be precisely positioned in order to avoid hurting the heating stock. Loads of guys will find that to be a valuable contribution to forge building.

You're right, and this is a case of Kentucky windage, or even whatever seems good.

If you bevel the forward (large) ends of your burners, so that incoming air can flow past them, the burners will grow more powerful.

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Whatever; goodbye.