Galvanized, zinc, fumes, and milk

[Bowland]

Milk was at one time issued to welders working with galvanized parts in shipyards here in the UK. Along with a higher rate of pay while they were on the job

These days we have tight health and safety laws and inspections. The safety of workers has improved dramatically!  But we don't build many ships now - that's all going to nations who likely give thier guys milk and other faulse info to make profits 

I am glad the apprentice of today don't need put up with the risk and injury I did though 

[Charlotte]

I have often reflected that I was fortunate to have survived my industrial "one of the hands that draw the water and hews the wood" years with all my parts in tact and with out serious chemical damage.

17 hours ago, Bowland said:

Milk was at one time issued to welders working with galvanized parts in shipyards here in the UK. Along with a higher rate of pay while they were on the job

These days we have tight health and safety laws and inspections. The safety of workers has improved dramatically!  But we don't build many ships now - that's all going to nations who likely give thier guys milk and other faulse info to make profits 

I am glad the apprentice of today don't need put up with the risk and injury I did though 

There are still employers around the world that place profit and production ahead to their employees.

[Wroughtnharv]

My father just had his 90th birthday, I'll be 68 next month.  I learned to weld on hot dipped galvanized fence tubing .065 wall over forty years ago.  My dad worked in the gate shop and that was where I learned to weld.  I don't weld it every day but I don't avoid it either.

I've had zinc poisoning maybe four times in my life.  The symptoms for me was like having a bad case of body aches caused by the flu.  It was pretty miserable for about three hours and then I would be fine.

I take precautions, well, one, I'm always in a well ventilated area and I try to not inhale fumes.  If the material is heavy galvanized like large beams and angles I will grind the area first.

The biggest thing I have learned is all of us are different and our bodies react differently to chemicals.  I've known a lot of welders who could and would weld galvanized.  I've also seen people who got deathly ill just getting down wind from the welding operation.

The most memorable was a neighbor who wanted a bird cage, 8' X 8' X 18'.  Nothing but a thing.  I picked up some 1 5/8" 16 gauge galvanized fence tube and he helped one evening cutting it out while I was welding it up.  Three days later I went over to see what had happened to him because he had missed our scheduled after work work.  He was in bed sicker than a dog with the "flu".  If you do get a harsh reaction to the welding fumes I would recommend being checked out for asthma or COPD.  The fumes can irritate an existing issue.

I'm not recommending for anyone to weld galvanized if they feel threatened.  But I do know that there are a lot of other things out there that present a much greater threat to us welders.  Some of the plastics used in coating outside and or inside of tubing are a lot more toxic.

If you want to have your breath taken away cut into some drill stem with a plastic liner.  You will only do it once intentionally.

http://www.weldmyworld.com/blog/2011/12/side-effects-of-welding-galvanized-steel.html

[Angel]

My son has been welding galvanized zinc to build fences for a very large ranch.  He started getting sick so I took him to the emergency room. Took blood test and a CT scan. 

His blood pressure and vital were over the top.  He tried to tell them about fumes and what he had been doing.  The acted like he was crazy and told him he was just dehydrated.

I really upset that they would not even listen to him.   He is still sick and can not work.  My question is where do I take him for this when the hospital won't listen and help him?

Thank you for any help!!!

[Glenn]

The safety section on this site has a lot of the information and references. Search OSHA and other sources about zinc fumes, heavy metal poisoning, etc. It is a well known problem

Print out the material and start your own reference file. Give a copy of the file along with the work your son has been doing to the NEXT doctor so he can be informed and have a place to start a proper diagonisis. 

 

https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/159-zinc-galvanized-and-coatings/

Your research should include welding forums and sources.

 

[Michael Cochran]

On 6/2/2016 at 10:45 PM, Wroughtnharv said:

fence tubing .065

That's a great material to learn how to control your heat. I learned mig welding on similar thickness. I miss working in the gate shop on occasion but don't miss the fumes at all.

[Racerboy2hl]

Alright, whomever the XXXXX is that is talking about this is probably some know it all that has never seen, let alone welded in their life. I’ve been welding for 45 years and an ironworker for 20 years and drinking milk when welding galvanized WORKS!!! What happens is the calcium and phosphorus in the milk bind with the zinc so that the stomach and intestines don’t absorb it. I just welded zinc with practically no ventilation for 8 hrs. Cause that’s how it is. Everyone gives perfect world scenarios, but these never ever happen when you are in a boom lift and have to weld it and there is no breeze your screwed. Just drink a quart at the beginning of the day and a quart at lunch. The most you’ll get is a mild headache. If you don’t you will get a severe headache and vomiting. So listen to a human lab rat not a nerdy XXXX book worm. Drink the milk. Plus it’s good for ya. Go local 22 ironworkers!!!!

[Glenn]

I am glad you have avoided illness.  Not everyone is so fortunate.  Look up heavy metal positioning, fume fever, and etc. and galvanized, zinc, fumes, and milk.  Welders are routinely exposed to the substances that cause metal fume fever from the base metal, plating, or filler. The most common form of exposure among welders occurs when welding galvanized steel, of which zinc is the primary component of the galvanization process. Ref: Wiki

Zinc is airborne and goes into the lungs. Milk is a liquid and goes into the stomach.  The two are completely separate systems.

You may want to look up Jim "PawPaw" Wilson, a blacksmith who got into zinc fumes in his shop.  The zinc did not kill him but opened the door for pneumonia and other problems and sent him to the hospital. A very short time later he died.

IForgeIron is all about safety, in over 150 world wide countries that visit the site.  They may not know the cautions of zinc and other heavy metals, but we can bring it to their attention.

[Frosty]

Uh HUH and we should believe you WHY? You've been a member for a whole 33  minutes and making claims of 65 years welding experience. Drinks 3 qts of milk and pends 8 hour days welding galvy with  no ventilation and no ill effects.

Do you know what the calcium phosphorous, zinc absorption, process is called? Can you describe the process by which it CAN be absorbed by the body from milk fast enough to allow the gradual chemistry to neutralize zinc?  

Please, I'm all ears. 

Are you so old  timey you disregard the $20, 3M cartridge full face respirator that pretty well removes zinc oxide smoke from your breathable completely?

I retired 16years ago with 30 years and 10-15 of previous experience. I carried certifications for pipe and structural, heavy section and pressure vessel on top of that I have a couple years learning fabrication and kept it current until I discovered how short lived professional welders were. In spite of the milk myth. 

It wasn't until decent respirators became a requirement on jobs that welders started living long enough to retire. My last job laughed at me when I asked for appropriate breathing gear, then darned near peed themselves when I dropped by my union, Osha with spec sheets for the wire I was burning, then visited HR with their letters of intent.

The hard nosed open a window and drink milk front office gave me carte blanc for the safety gear I wanted from then on. No questions asked, here's the stock request # turn in the receipts.

Yeah, contrary to popular myth zinc poisoning is NOT heavy metal, zinc isn't even close to a heavy metal.

Zinc oxide is even water soluble and if you don't breath a lot you don't even get the blue flu after a while. Breath too much and the daughter compounds from flushing it out of your lungs is another thing and NO calcium or phosphorous isn't going to help.

What milk actually does to mitigate the effects IF you drink it constantly during the day and the recovery period, Pint cartons are plenty. It stimulates mucous production, the same thing that makes it THE way to take pills, it fills your mouth with extra slippery saliva. Your lungs first defense against foreign materials is to flush if from your alveoli with mucous. Unfortunately part of process is breaking invaders down if possible and zinc oxide breaks down easily into more toxic daughter compounds which enter the blood stream instead of being carried out of your lungs in the mucous while you hack and spit.

I call bull crap racerboy, I'm calling you out for being another kid who thinks he can fake real welders out with a mitigation method that was debunked 40 years ago and NO union would allow as a replacement for basic PPE. No only is it BS it's laughably out of date STUPID B A D BS. It's BS that any legitimate union, HR, on site union safety officer or OSHA would fine the outfit for allowing a welder to work in those conditions without approved PPE out of business.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steve Sells]

I am IBEW 305 and a first aid & CPR instructor and an EMT,  and I call you on your nonsense as well. you are no real union member either. Indianapolis hall would not allow welding with out PPE If you really are a member, then you need to retake your OSHA30 class you missed something there

[George N. M.]

I agree with the experts above.  PPE is a better way to go than a debunked old wives tale.  As Frosty points out milk can have some benefits in certain situations but it is much better to avoid having it get in your body in the first place with PPE.  Heavy metal poisoning is serious enough that a wise person will be very aggressive about avoiding exposure.  IMO, the equation is even more heavily weighted than smoking causes lung cancer, so, avoid or stop smoking tobacco.

BTW, most lab rats, human or rodent, end up dying as part of the experiment.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Daswulf]

I don't understand how someone that welds a Lot wouldn't wear a respirator. Especially in a union, the stuff would be pushed on you and pretty much provided or a deduction I would think. I work in a body shop (union actually) and they are made plenty available and we are tested and trained yearly. Mainly for paint but there is plenty of welding.

Especially should wear one in a confined space with little air circulation. Drink all the milk you want but you only have one set of lungs. Why abuse them more on a daily basis with something toxic like that. That kind of thing takes its toll after a while. 

[JHCC]

The bad news is, we had to deal with a troll. 

The good news is, good safety information was reiterated!