Does anyone have a recommendation for a very simple shelter for an outdoor shop?

[Paradigm11]

Just posting an update to let everyone know I hadn't given up! Coming up quite nicely and I think I'll have it done for under $1000 thanks for a bunch of scraps I've gathered.

 

First time building any structure so it's not the prettiest, but it's square and it's held my 250kb weight as I've clambered around.

4 more 2x10's for the roof and then I can slap a top on it and nail some old barn wood to the outside. I plan to do corrugated metal on the inside with a sand/gravel floor.

Last step will be building out a retaining wall in the back to level the actual ground instead of just the key points.

 

[George N. M.]

It looks like it is coming along nicely.  My only suggestion is to put in a few diagonal 2x4s for extra strength.  You may not need it but IMO stronger = better and with your snow load stronger is always good.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[rich_c]

That looks nice. 

I'll admit to being a bit jealous.

[Paradigm11]

Absolutely, George! Once I've got the roof framing up I'm going to bracket everything, add diagonals to the roof and corners.

Thanks, rich. It looks a lot worse in person haha

[Frosty]

Put the diagonals in first so it won't wrack out of square! Waiting till after you have the roof and sheathing on will only make any skew permanent.

Looks pretty darned good so far.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Jason L]

This is exactly my situation. I'm planning on the same size shed for the same reasons. I've been planning on doing it for several years now, just haven't started. I thought about the hinged wall when I saw someone nearby had done it for a party shed. It looked amazing and offered much more space when opened. When I saw it I knew that was an idea I'd have to consider, although I'm still working out where to put the bar so as to not take up too much space lol. Just kidding. I'm lucky that we don't have snow here but storms are a concern. My forge doesn't have accommodations for a draft hood so I'm still figuring that out. 

[LeeJustice]

Hinged to swing upward or from one side or another?  Going up would be kind of nice to give a little more shaded space in which to work.  Or to keep rain out while having it open.

[Paradigm11]

The recommendation was for swinging it up. I'm not planning on doing that currently, but I've got an idea of how I would if I ever choose to change it.

Nice thing about building my own shed is that I know for certain what I can change without goofing it up too bad. Big reason I used nails instead of screws for the stuff that wasn't critical to the structural integrity.

I do plan on making a big ole door, though. My first project in the new area is to make hardware to hang a big, heavy door in that area in the left where the planks at ~5' are missing. 

[Frosty]

Swing UP! Hinge it from the high side so it opens outwards and up. Sheath the outside with roofing and cover the hinge with flexible membrane so it doesn't leak. Lifting is as easy as dropping a 2" x 6" into a Samson strong tie centered on the low side of the hinged panel. Just push it up and use the 2" x 6" as a temporary post while you set the corner 4" x 4"s. Lowering it is just reversing the process. EZ PZ.

When up it will be a peaked roof so rain runs off and closed it forms a solid wall to keep weather out. Put your man door(s) in the end walls and do NOT forget windows!

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

Have fun with the shed!  Constructing a smithy is kinda like putting together a computer back in the "old days", getting all the parts and pieces and enjoying the final successful effort (if it works..).

[Paradigm11]

I've already smacked it and said "that ain't going anywhere" so I'm confident it'll survive anything I throw at it!

[Paradigm11]

Apologies for the double post but for whatever reason I can't find the edit button to my previous comment and I actually do have a question:

For the roof I'm planning on just doing 1/2" plywood and corrugated metal / plastic on top.

My question is whether or not I should go for metal / use insulation or heat tape for the chimney?

I've got a coal forge and the chimney will likely be pretty tall. A minimum of 8 feet vertical gain.

 

I've attached a picture of my my current setup that I drag out whenever I do anything. Not anything special.

I plan to do take that chimney and go straight up through the roof and use high temp caulk for the sealant.

[Frosty]

Use a stove pipe roof jack/flange instead of doing a hack. Are you going to use an ice/water shield? It can be spendy but it's a good underlayment for whatever final roofing you use, metal in your case. Our roof is steel and we used "Grace ice and water shield along the eves, gable ends, valleys and around the cupola. 

A chimney jack generally has a wide flat flash that lays on the roof and a conical extension the pipe fits up through. If you can't find small quantities of a water shield membrane like Grace of similar you can use a mastic but ONLY do the uphill and sides do NOT seal the downward side. It's not really possible to completely seal a roof penetration, especially a smoke stack, heating and cooling with thermal cycles WILL break silicone calking. The stack must have room to move so a little water will get past. Leaving the bottom of the flange un-sealed allows it to follow the roofing out rather than down the stack into the room below.

Make sense? 

I must be sleepy, below is a link to images of roof jacks, they come in many angles, flange shapes for different roofing, etc. for others following along there are also wall jacks, for chimneys, air ducting, etc. If you're doing a wall penetration for a smoke stack we can talk about those too.

 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chimney+roof+jacks+for+metal&atb=v397-6nw&t=chromentp&iax=images&ia=images

Frosty The Lucky.

[NicZa]

Looking good Paradigm!

I've been making and installing all kind of roof penetrations by hand for well over a decade so I thought I could share how I would make it if I were you.

I wont get into detail of explaining you precisely why I would do it this way, feel free to ask if you have questions, but here's my key points.

1. If there is a way of avoiding putting a whole in a roof, more often than not it's better to take that route, in this case it's through the wall.
2. Don't ever put any trust in calking, it will always fail, often sooner than later.
3. Always try to penetrate the roof at it's highest point, or as close to it as possible. This way, WHEN the penetration leaks, there will be the least amount of water available to leak trough. I would also recommend installing underlayment (ice/water shield), it's not only for leaks but it also keeps the condensation forming under the metal roofing from absorbing into the wood construction making your roof and building last way longer.

 

Here's how I would do it:

The black box is the chimney, around it a larger diameter air ducting pipe. This creates a air channel around the chimney, the chimney will warm up the air and create an upward draft through the ventilation pipe, free ventilation to bring in fresh air to the shop (an alternative is filling the space with fire-proof isolation.) In red is the chimney roof jack Frosty mentioned. I would also recommend installing underlayment (ice/water shield), it's not only for leaks but it also keeps the condensation forming under the metal roofing from absorbing into the wood construction making your roof and building last way longer.

// NJ

[Paradigm11]

Thanks for all the info, definitely looking to do it right. Looks like I need to do some reading, glad I asked!

 

I could feed it out of the wall no problem, but I was under the impression that you wanted to go vertical as soon as possible, thus the cut in the roof idea.

[Frosty]

Welllllll. Straight up draws better sure but it's more likely to leak. If you go out the wall give the stove pipe a SLIGHT downwards slant outwards say 1/4", 1/2" MAX as soon as it's out the wall. Wall Jacks are similar to roof jacks and can be found online or the local quality hardware, HVAC or stove store. As soon as the horizontal run from the forge is JUST past the roof eves install a Vent T with the flap valve facing downwards. Connect the stove pipe until it's taller than the highest part of the roof within the distance required by local Code. The number will be available online. 

You'll need to support it with a couple stove pipe / round duct cradles, they'll have a round section for the pipe itself and a couple legs with screw holes to connect to the wall. I like stainless hose clamps to secure the pipe in the cradle but some have bands that snap around which are fine if they fit.

Put an appropriate cap on the pipe and maybe a couple guys and you're good to go. Check CODE for what kind of pipe cap is legal, almost everywhere requires spark arrestor caps and fines can get more expensive than having a professional installation done.

What the Vent T does is allow the cold air plug to fall out of the pipe when you first light the fire so it draws right from the beginning. Without a vent T, cold air will fill the stack and when you light the fire the warm air MUST force the cold air up and out. However, if the cold air has a place to go the warm air can and will flow up one side of the stack while the cold flows down the other and out. Once the cold plug is clear it's all happy draw and a smoke free room.

You CAN use a plain pipe T without the vent thingy but it'll be an open vent outside low enough to allow cold air into the room. A vertical roof penetration is all going up so will carry warm air from the room without cold air flowing down it from outside. By the way, COLD plug is a relative term room temp is cold compared to the fire. 

The smoke shelf in masonry chimneys does the same thing by directing the warm air from the fire against the back side of the flue so the cold air plug can flow down the close side and back into the fireplace. Once the plug is clear and everything is warmed up it draws as it should. If it was built right that is of. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Paradigm11]

Ok, so I'm a little stuck on the requirements for penetrating a roof (went that way after some thinking).

I purchased a supervent ceiling support kit from Lowe's which is for 8" ID double walled insulated stove pipe (more on the 8" thing in a bit) which requires 2" clearance from combustibles. No problem there.

Roof Flashing Assembly (including Storm Collar) is required when the chimney penetrates a roof. I've got that, no problem either.

Here's where the confusion comes in:

Rafter Radiation Shield: Required when the chimney is enclosed immediately below the roof (I don't have this).

 

Bit in the section on RRS it says the following:

A Rafter Radiation Shield (RRS) must be installed where the chimney is nclosed immediately below the roof line. An example of this is when the attic space of a house is being used as living space (ie. bedroom, guestroom etc.).

This, to me, seems to imply it's only required in living spaces.

Here are some pics, we got the plywood up yesterday:

here is the spot where I plan to put my forge with the chimney going straight up and out.

View of the section it will go through (still some minor framing to do, was waiting to do it while framing the chimney support).

I believe I should be fine with just the roof parts and the ceiling support, but wanted to run it by everyone to make sure I wasn't crazy.

Regarding the 8" thing now, that's just the size of the hood I have. I bought my forge off of Facebook marketplace a few years ago and the guy who had it was using it fine in a much smaller shop than mine. Here are some pics of that:

Firepot dimensions are 8" x 10" and 6" deep.

Exit is 8"

Hood detaches so I moved it around to find if one way worked better than the other.

Can see where I burned the paint with a bad config / windy day tried it without a chimney in my yard). Need to repaint it.

I apologize for the lengthy post. Really into this project right now.

[Frosty]

You aren't penetrating through an enclosed space like an attic, the reg doesn't apply. BUT I'm just some guy on the internet reading what you posted. Take your pics and visit a local fire station and ask an expert. That is orders of magnitude more informative than asking code enforcement. Code enforcement's default setting is "NO."

If you tack or staple a sheet of thin shiny metal to the roof around the penetration it will be shielded by a potential run away fire, however unlikely that is. You never know some "more is better," knothead might fill the forge with wood someday. 

Double wall is good, is it insulated? Insulated is WAY better and reduces stand off distances where code allows.

If you want to go the extra mile run your stove pipe inside a short length of at least 10" stove pipe in the penetration. It provides both shielded stand off AND free air circulation to cool the shield and roofing. Make sense? Run the shield pipe maybe 1' above the roof and let the rest hang inside. Put a storm collar on the stovepipe above the standoff pipe but leave a gap so air can circulate up through it but it minimizes rain leakage.

Make sense?

Use code steel stovepipe hangers!

Bear in mind I am NOT a HVAC tech or certified to do this in any way. I'm just a guy on the internet who's been burning wood off and on for 50 years.

On a practical note, exhaust fumes (smoke) from coal fires tends to run cool to start with and chills rapidly in the chimney. You can buy magnetic stick on stack thermometers at any stove and most any HVAC supply or online to check.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Paradigm11]

I actually talked to the fire chief already and he said just to follow the manufacturer instructions and don't store accelerants in the shed.

I've also read that the fumes cool quickly, but fire codes don't really care.

The pipes are double wall insulated, yeah. I was kind of considering just doing the required clearance of the non-insulated because I have the room. The 10" pipe thing sounds clever, I may do that.

 

Thanks for the advice as always.

[Goods]

8” double wall may not fit inside a 10” vent pipe. Might want to check before committing…

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

Right you are David, I didn't think before I wrote that. 8" double wall wouldn't have much free space inside 12" single wall. If you go that route measure the OD and ID and make sure you have at least 1" space all round.

If the fire chief said go with the recommended installation it's THE way to go. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Paradigm11]

Ok I think I've gotten the information I need. Final question regarding the chimney. I know 8" is on the small side of recommended already, and if you look at the pics of the forge you can see I'll need to do an immediate right angle out of it to go straight up, which I know is generally not recommended for creating a good draw.

Since it's directly at the entrance to the hood will the bend really cause that much of an issue? The chimney is probably going to be around 12' tall after the hood.

Probably will be doing the T right at the hood that Frosty suggested.

[Goods]

Will the joint on the hood rotate? If so that should give you a vertical connection. If not, I would cut that off square and put a 45 elbow on it. You may even be able to get a straight adapter to replace the 45 degree adapter that is on it now.

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

That is a 45* elbow on the hood now, it it's too old to turn try removing it and putting back on rotated so it points straight up. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Paradigm11]

Ohhhh haha I thought it was all one piece, didn't even give it a second thought. Looking at it, I'll probably be able to rotate it. Beautiful.