Does anyone have a recommendation for a very simple shelter for an outdoor shop?

[Paradigm11]

Ive got a small setup of a forge cart on casters, a bench in a carport and my anvil on a stump.

Currently it's all sharing space with my lawnmower, gardening stuff, landscaping stuff, etc.

Kinda crowded.

When I want to do some work it's about an hour of shuffling stuff around and setting things up outside in my driveway. Longer with the teardown because I have to wait for things to cool. Also means I can only work on nice days.

I'm planning on making basically a slanted roof on 4x4s, roughly 10x12. My goal is to have something that I can easily move or adjust if needed.

I've a couple ideas, but basically I plan to have 2 walls and the other 2 open and have the anvil kitty cornered in the walls to catch spark spray when forge welding.

The floor is just going to be stamped down churned up earth.

The goal is to be able to leave everything in place and be able to work in the rain and snow.

 

I work with coke and my forge has a hood but no chimney. Its designed to have one but since I'm working outside and moving it, have it off. 

[The Jeff]

I would suggest gravel instead of just dirt.

When it rains it will be mudd.

 

[Paradigm11]

Its situated on a hilltop and the roof will cover most of it so I'm not INCREDIBLY concerned there, but yeah if if ends up being sloppy I definitely plan to drop some crushed stone. This is very much a "phase one" kind of thing.

[Frosty]

If you raise the floor above OG (Original Ground) level water won't be able to run in from around. Simple sides that clip on or tarps that tie down would protect it from blown rain or snow. If the floor gets muddy cover it with gravel and run a compactor over it or just walk the gravel into the mud, it will set up like concrete and become very solid.

If you cover one wall with translucent corrugated fiberglass Panels it'll give you good light while keeping the weather off.

Here's another thought for you. If instead of 10' x 12' single pitch roofed shed you were to build a 10' x 8' single pitch shed that is 8' tall at the high wall. you can hang an 8' x 10' wall on hinges you can raise and support on posts for a 10' x 16" shop that only appears when you wish it to. Sure an 8' x 10' roof will be pretty heavy but making it in two halves that overlap a few inches  makes it an easy lift. 

A little paint and care and the neighbors should think you built a nice tool, mower, etc. shed. Hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

You needd to check with your local municipality, township, or county to see if they have any building codes that building such a shelter would envoke.  Because the 4x4s will likely be permanently afixed to the ground (rather than being on skids like a manufactured garden shed) it may count as a "permanent structure" and require certain construction standards.  In my old county 100 square feet was the trigger point for needing a building permit.

You may be able to fly under the radar if it is not visible from a public road but if a neighbor can see it and report it there could be negative ramifications.

Just trying to make sure you don't step on any legal land mines.  I have seen too many folk get wrapped around the axle when they could have easily avoided all the hassle.

BTW, you probably haven't been on the forum long enough to know that I am an old county attorney.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Jimw3326]

29 minutes ago, George N. M. said:

 In my old county 100 square feet was the trigger point for needing a building permit.

 

With this in mind,

40 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Here's another thought for you. If instead of 10' x 12' single pitch roofed shed you were to build a 10' x 8' single pitch shed that is 8' tall at the high wall. you can hang an 8' x 10' wall on hinges you can raise and support on posts for a 10' x 16" shop that only appears when you wish it to. Sure an 8' x 10' roof will be pretty heavy but making it in two halves that overlap a few inches  makes it an easy lift. 

 

This would avoid any issues. And since it would be a door of sorts, a tarp would be adequate unless you're wanting long term survivability. 

 

[George N. M.]

The trigger point for building code jurisdiction is likely to be different in different places, I have seen everything from 75 aquare feet to 150.  Check with your local building code office.  BTW, never describe yourself as a "blacksmith" or your shop as a "blacksmith shop."  You are a hobby metal worker and your shop is your "studio."  This will make life easier for you.  Trust me.

Frosty's suggestion reminds me of my baker tent that I have used at demos for years.  It is basically half of a wall tent with a fly extending out from the ridge pole.  If anyone is thinking of getting one I bought mine from Panther Primitives in 1986 and it is still working fine.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

One of the steel carports works very well for a movable building and in most places doesn't count as a building skirting the regulations, check with your jurisdiction though. arkie has one and it works a treat for him.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[arkie]

Randy, indeed I do!  Great memory!

This one is 12' x 20' with a 8' eave so that I can walk under it.  These come in all sizes, some installation is included in the price; some are DIY assembly.  You can also erect all sorts of posts, rafters and roofing material of your choice from scrap and purchased materials.  Gets a little cold and windy in the winter, though!  BTW, after this picture was taken, I installed a 12" flue pipe from the forge sloping out to the roof peak in front.

 

 

 

[George N. M.]

A car port is a great idea.  I checked both Amazon and Home Depot and there are some nice ones available at surprisingly low prices (several hundred dollars) with roll up fabric sides and doors.  If I didn't have a real shop I'd be looking at these very intently.  Unless you are building something out of free materials and if your time is worth anything these look like a really good option.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

If I didn't have a shop, I'd be looking at these too though you have to do some reinforcing here or the snow load will collapse it depending on the season's snowfall of course. I'd have to put a barrel stove in too. These are hard to beat for the money but shop around and watch for sales at season changes.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Paradigm11]

Thanks for all the replies!

I've already looked into the building codes and for myself I'm good without a permit. It just has to be under 200 square feet and a detached structure.  It can be on posts on pilings. A real foundation would require a permit. I don't need to worry about a setback either, but I'm well past that anyway. My town actually has a page dedicated to this question!

I might take a look at the carport option, that seems like it might be a good solution. I was thinking about whipping up something roughly like the attached image and just using some galvanized corrugated metal for the roof and siding. Attach it to some skids that sit on some of those 4x4 post spikes. I actually tried driving one of those into the ground today as a proof of concept and I actually need to make a lever out of some thick steel stock, some firewood and my car jack to get it back out, so I'm confident 4-6 of those would make sure it doesn't move anywhere unwanted.

Decisions, decisions. Only think I've actually nailed down so far is where I want it haha.

[Daswulf]

Not that you are looking into this but some might find it useful in searching this. Hf and some places have some cheaper car ports that have a metal tubing base to put a tarp over. They are 10'x12' and might work well for some. Better than the 10x10 easy ups. Tho they are nice to have at demos. Anyway, with some craftyness the metal tubing style can be modified to be more durable in the long run. 

The build you are planning seems fine. 

[George N. M.]

Para, one thing you might do is make a materials list and price the components out and then compare it to car port option.  This ignores how much time you'd have to put into either one.

GNM

[Frosty]

Para, eh George? I kind of like digm myself. A couple questions, how much snow and how much wind do you get? 

A common mistake folks make is putting the door on the down wind side. The way the wind WILL slow on the down wind side means snow will settle out in the lee so you'll end up with drifts as high as the roof. IF you live in a place that can expect a couple feet in a snowfall with a wind. If it blows a lot it can drift in from snow just blowing past. 

Doors on sides the wind blows past tend to stay clearer. 

That's a good general plan though you'll want to frame it properly, just because. The Home Depot or Lowes has really basic books on framing and general carpentry like how to hang a door and windows, ted. for pretty cheap so you can do it right. I have a couple of their books it keeps me out of trouble. 

I suggest you spike it down with rebar you forge into proper spikes. Rebar is easy to pull with a fork forged to fit the bar and bent like a prybar but not so far. You won't need anything fancy, maybe a block if the ground is soft but just the bar and maybe a cheater if the ground is frozen.

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Since he is in New Hampshire snow load is a significant factor.  Here, the prevailing wind is out of the NW but in some of our biggest snow storms the high winds have been out of the SE.  However, the direction of a car port/shop may be dictated by the orientation of available space.  Since it will likely not have vehicles going into it there may be more orientation option than on part of the driveway.

Snow load alone may tip the scales towards a stick built structure rather than a fabric covered car port.  I'd check to see what the local snow load standards are.  Many places in snowy climates increse them above what the Uniform Building Code dictates.  In NE Colorado we incresed our wind loads and the amount of tie downs necessary for a mobile home permit.

Since a paradigm is 20 cents I didn't think my short comment had that much value.  So, my 10 cents.

G

[Paradigm11]

Great input again. I'm sending a positive trend on here 

I have created the list for everything I'd need and it is ~$600 for the wood, haven't accounted for the roofing yet. An additional $800 in shiplap for siding.

As for snow load, that's one of the adjustments I was thinking of. I'm in central NH and we get a decent amount of snow. This plan has the roof has a 2.5:12 pitch. Which in think is enough.

The shed's opening will be mostly shielded by my house and the angle will be dumping the snow off of it away from any area I ever really go to.

[Frosty]

If you get much snow, especially wet heavy snow you'll wat the roof to shed it easily. A 2.5 - 10 probably isn't steep enough The main roof on our house is 6 - 12 steel and snow sticks to it. Believe me when 3-4' of snow slides off it shakes the whole house. 

At 7' 12"+ exterior low side height you can make a long handled snow rake to clear it but you need to leave yourself enough room behind you. There are some snow rakes that use rope rather than a pole but they can be a hassle or take a couple guys.

If you think you'll get much snow you're really need to beef up the roof joists. Maybe put them on closer centers or add a bit of a truss works to they don't sag. Increasing the high side 2' would help, especially if you can get the interior warm enough to melt the contact between roof and snow so it sheds.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

Para, (I like George's shortform) if you would like to roof and/or do the sides with sheet metal, some of the metal roofing companies might have drops from other jobs that you can use. I got several to put on the side of my carport to block the glare from sunlight next to my anvil (and some wind too). You can overlap the shorter pieces. They might just give them to you if you tell what you are using them for, and a forged bottle opener might seal the deal. Don't worry about mismatches...paint works.

Have fun! Making a smithy is almost as much fun as using it.

[George N. M.]

In heavy snow areas roofs that shed snow are pretty standard.  Metal roofs with the seams running up and down are common and required on new construction in some areas.  Some folk will even apply things like wax to reduce friction even more.  High traffic areas like entrances to hotels and stores often have vertical tabs on the metal roofs to prevent the snow from avalanching off on folk walking below.

On the subject of pulling snow off roofs I knew a lady who was a county commissioner in southern Colorado who had lost her husband when he and a buddy went up to their cabin to get the heavy snow off the roof and didn't come back.  They were found buried in the snow.  Apparently, they got caught when 3-5' of snow came down on them unexpectedly.  It was like being caught in an avalanch.

G

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I remember from when I was a kid in Ohio around 1946 there was a big snow storm off of Lake Erie. The snow drifted so high when dad opened the front door the snow was drifted so high that he tunneled out putting the snow in the bath tub. The tunnel was about 10 feet out and he was able to dig over to the car to go to work. My brother and I used that tunnel as a fort for about a week digging side rooms off of it.

In 1947 we moved to south Florida. Dad always said the reason we moved, was he was tired of Lake Erie catching on fire.

 

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[Frosty]

Huh, I thought people in those parts of Ohio lit Lake Erie on fire to melt the snow.

Deb's old farm house in the UP of Michigan, about 10 miles from Lake Superior had a "winter" door under the wide gable eaves on the second floor. Homes and buildings along the highway and communities in Thompson Pass frequently have second story doors or covered walks. They ALL have very strong roofs. IN snow season the highway is a canyon cut through snow up to 20'+ deep. It's a neat drive, weird but pretty cool.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael]

Sounds like a good plan. I set up just such a space during the pandemic. 4x4 posts, recycled corrugated for the roof and walls. No snow load in California, but rain protection and drainage. Recycled pier blocks buried around the perimeter with post base hangers for the 4x4s.  I hung 2x4's from the posts and hung the corrugated walls from the 2x4s, with a healthy space, 8 inches or so open at the top and bottom of the walls. This seems to keep the air moving (pretty constant breeze) and I haven't needed a chimney. Decomposed granite for the flooring is cheap, drains well and doesn't mud up.

[Paradigm11]

Yup, I'm avid skier, snowmobiler and general lover of snow. Very familiar with it's risks. NH doesn't get the snow that the west or Buffalo gets, but we're good for some big storms.

I'm taking the advice of a steeper slope on the roof, though I'm not too worried. My carport has a pretty gentle angle and handles the snow fine.

I've gone with the wood build because I like having a DIY project. I'm taking plenty of photos so I'll share a full album when I'm done. 

 

I appreciate all the information and discussion, it's a big part of the fun!

[Frosty]

Don't forget to post pics or it never happened.

Frosty The Lucky.