jtyson Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I’m Jeremiah. New on here to posting, but actually joined several years ago. I’ve been exposed to blacksmithing and metal working for a long time. I’m in New Mexico and have a friend who introduced me to it a long time ago after taking classes with Robb Gunter and his sons. I met them, got to spend a little time in their school and at Robb’s forge and see what its like when a true master puts hammer to iron. I didn’t really appreciate it then to be honest as I had other interests taking up my time, but in the last couple years, I’ve been trying to set myself up to be able to do some more hot metal moving. As my title states though, I tend to get distracted, sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for a few months with other things and life and such. Might be a bit wordy, but I’m going to lay out all the irons I’ve got in the fire and if anyone should choose to give me some ideas or criticism, I’m sure I could use it. I’m not brand new to metal. I have been welding and fabricating for over a decade, a portion of that professionally. I still have a good chunk of equipment from my business, so I’m way further along on getting set up and getting ready to get going than a lot of people who are already producing awesome stuff with minimalist forge set ups. I know I don’t need the biggest, shiniest and nicest, but I do tend to spend time and money hunting down good tools, building things that make the process more enjoyable, etc. I try to spend once as often as possible rather than start small and upgrade if it is something I think that I will be limited with. I intend to make decorative things, knives and other tools, ornamental stuff for things like gates and doors and such, body jewelry and who knows what else. Tools I’ve got - Not an exhaustive list, just ones I can think of that are related to this trade. MIG Welder - Miller 211 TIG welder - Lincoln Square Wave 200 Oxy/Acetylene rig with Victor torch. This admittedly probably needs upgraded. I only use this as a gas axe, rarely ever weld or preheat with it and its vintage so probably needs upgraded. Southbend 9” lathe Jet Benchtop Drill Press - I need to find a floor model as this often limits me in my projects. Kalamazoo horizontal bandsaw Racine power hacksaw - I’m rebuilding this one and not sure if I’ll keep or sell. I’ve been told they cut cold stock very cleanly, much better than horizontal gravity feed bandsaws like mine. Multiple portable bandsaws. Working on turning one of my corded ones into an upright table top unit. Several corded and cordless angle grinders Multiple die grinders cordless and hydraulic. Tormek 2000 grinder - I use this to sharpen tooling, chisels, etc but also use it on knives as well. Dewalt Metal Chop Saw - I hate this thing and rarely use it. But it seems like a staple in a number of forge shops I see. 4x8 rolling adjustable height welding table - Poorly described. This is my flat surface that is constantly full of so much stuff I can’t use it. Wood shop tools - because wood and metal have to play together sometimes. I’ve got a low grade hobbyist shop worth of these too - cabinet saw, upright bandsaw, lathe, jointer, chop saws, radial arm, scroll saw, 10 million clamps, routers, etc. This is relevant because I’d like to make metal things that have wood parts and wood things that have metal parts. Firminy Pig 218lb anvil - I’d like to build a stand instead of the cottonwood stump I have it on. Unknown brand leg vice - Kind of an ugly piece that someone chopped up and welded some stuff on, but it works. I need to mount it somewhere there. Currently bolted to a stump which is basically worthless. 6” bench grinder Tools I need/want Forge - I am going to make one. Trying to decide on design to do it right the first time and hopefully not need to switch it up too soon. I have 3000 degree mortar, 1” roll of knock off insulation. ITC100HT coating. My intent is to build a forced air ribbon burner. I’ll need to getting all pipes, fittings and maybe a blower for that. I’ve got a blower, but it may be too much to use. 2x72 grinder(s) - I’ve got motors and some of the steel to build two of these. Need to buy VFD controllers and wheels. Was thinking about turning my own wheels, but don’t know that will be worthwhile on cost. These will be 2hp and I’m not sure if I’m going to build both and sell one to recoup some money, or if I’m going to keep both and put together a Frankenstein machine for grinding double hollow bevels for knives. Melting Furnace - I figure on this basically being an upright version of my forge maybe with a forced air Venturi burner though. Not sure on ribbon for a melter. May also consider oil burning. I intend to do some work with copper, bronze, aluminum, etc and want to be able to cast things and have ingots to work. Hydraulic Press - I know this isn’t a must have, but it is for me. My father wants to use this stuff too and he has had two shoulder replacements, so too much hammer time isn’t likely in his future. Also, I’m in the city and probably need to limit noise as much as feasible. All I have toward this is some of the structural steel. I’ve got 6x6x3/8 box tube, bent plate, some small I beams, 4x4x.5 angle, 5x3x.5 C channel, etc. I’ve got a good amount of scrap structural leftovers from my regular job that I’ve been able to take home. Power hammer - Again, I know not a must have, but I’d like to put one together sooner rather than later. All I’ve got toward this is the steel too. Well I may have a motor. My intent is to build a tire hammer or an air over hydraulic. I haven’t spent too much time deciding there. Hammers - All I have are some old hand sledges and harbor freight stuff. I’ll probably stay cheap for a bit until I find what I need, or make what I need. Tongs - I have zero tongs. I’ll need to either buy a couple sets or make a couple sets to get rolling. Just figure buying will be more likely considering I probably wont be good enough to make anything for a while. Heat Treat Oven - Considering I’d like to do some blades, I figure I’ll probably keep an eye out for one of these. My life is chaos, I’ve got 100 projects always going at once, but I’m trying to get this set up relatively soon so that I can make cool stuff and my dad can give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Welcome! One single piece of advice: invest in some good tongs. There are many tools to heat metal, to hit metal on, and to hit metal with, but there is no substitute for good tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum! After you get a good set of tongs then check out kens custom iron you’ll get several pairs of tongs for what you’ll spend on a single ready made pair, you just gotta finish em out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Welcome aboard Jeremiah, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of hooking up with members living within visiting distance. You might want to spend some time in the forges 101 section, most of what you listed for building a forge aren't particularly good for the job. 3,000f furnace cement is NOT formulated for flame contact, it's for sticking things together and won't last long in a forge. ITC-100 is a release agent to prevent glazes, and various stuff in kilns and furnaces from sticking to the furnace / kiln furniture. It's not really particularly good as a propane forge kiln wash. Forges 101 has I don't know how many pages of forge discussion but there are a number of good proven propane forge designs to copy. No sense in reinventing the wheel. Same for burners 101, thousands of posts discussing burners, pros, cons, etc. About this wordy thing. . . Welcome aboard! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Welome from North Carolina.... Land of whatever you make it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 In that case I vote we make North Carolina to be Be the capital of Antarctica! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 What general area are you at? I'm near Socorro, NM. Will you be at the August New Mexico Artist Blacksmith Association meeting in Bernalillo in August? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyson Posted July 7, 2022 Author Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Frosty said: Welcome aboard Jeremiah, You might want to spend some time in the forges 101 section, most of what you listed for building a forge aren't particularly good for the job. 3,000f furnace cement is NOT formulated for flame contact, it's for sticking things together and won't last long in a forge. ITC-100 is a release agent to prevent glazes, and various stuff in kilns and furnaces from sticking to the furnace / kiln furniture. It's not really particularly good as a propane forge kiln wash. Profile edited and some information added. As for the forge stuff, the stuff I bought was picked after doing quite a lot of reading on building and such so I’m surprised to hear you say that. I did buy some cheaper/generic versions of a couple things due to availability and price, but thought I’d be headed in the right direction. I bought amazon ceramic fiber fire blanket insulation which is comparable to kaowool. Smoothset refractory mortar which is comparable to Mizzou but what they carry at my local clay store, and the ITC100HT I see touted everywhere as an excellent refractory ceramic finish to keep heat in the forge. I’ll spend some time reading, but man, that is disappointing if I’m wrong about all I’ve already purchased. Yeah the reading/videos I’ve watched have pretty much sold me on casting a ribbon burner for the forge. Not positive for the melter as I haven’t done as much research there. 6 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said: Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum! After you get a good set of tongs then check out kens custom iron you’ll get several pairs of tongs for what you’ll spend on a single ready made pair, you just gotta finish em out I’ve seen Ken’s mentioned. Is it worth spending the money on blanks versus just making my own? I mean if I still have to shape them anyway, is it worth the time saved? I see so many shops with 40 different sets of tongs and I just can’t imagine it would be worth buying blanks for all those when you could make them, seemingly relatively easily compared to many other things. 4 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: What general area are you at? I'm near Socorro, NM. Will you be at the August New Mexico Artist Blacksmith Association meeting in Bernalillo in August? I’m in Albuquerque just up the road from you. Actually I know nothing about the meetings. If I’m being honest, I don’t tend to be a get together type of person. I know conventional wisdom says to learn from those near you and join a club, but its not really my style. I’m more of the struggle and learn it on my own time type. I like written info and short videos because I can squeeze them in around work hours. But who knows, maybe I’ll look into it. August though, not likely. Edited July 8, 2022 by Mod30 Trim quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 You’ll spend a lot less time an burn a lot less fuel just drawing out the reins a little, shaping on the jaws and putting a rivet in them, then you will starting from scratch with 3/4” or 1” stock an forging them out with no prior experience, so yes I’d say they are worth the ten or twelve bucks apiece, you don’t need 40 different sets of tongs just starting out, a handful of basic ones, an then you can use them to help you build the others as you learn! i only suggest kens because you mentioned possibly buying tongs an they are relatively cheap, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you. Yes, making your own tongs is cheaper but the kits from Ken's save you a lot of time for not much expense. If your time is worth anything to you it is probably cheaper to buy the blanks and go from there. Even if you don't attend events of a blacksmithing group the newsletters which usually have various projects in them are valuable. Also, there may be videos and book available from their library. What part of Albuquerque are you in? My step daughter and grandaughter and some friends are in the NE quadrant. If you are in an urban area you may want to think about a coke or charcoal solid fuel forge. A treadle hammer may be an alternative to a power hammer. The sound and vibration of a power hammer may be the most intrusive of what you are doing for the neighbors. As of a couple years ago (the last time we visited Albuquerque, pre-covid) there was a booth carrying various blacksmithing items at the Specialty Antiques Mall, 4516 Central Ave SE (old US 66). They had a pair of titanium tongs which I thought about because of the light weight but $100 was too rich for my blood. Again, welcome aboard. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 47 minutes ago, jtyson said: after doing quite a lot of reading on building and such so I’m surprised to hear you say that Well, thats a hard act to follow. We get a lot of people here asking for advice. Most are pretty rank beginners. The hardest to answer are questions from those who have done their homework and thus already have "the" answers. Frosty gave the correct response, and you show you have done your homework. Cool, now that is out of the way, got any questions that you haven't researched? From the list of your tools, and the list of things you want to do, you are pretty well covered, including heat treating a knife. No reason you cant build a great knife with a grinder, sand paper and a file or two, and heat treat with your ox/acetl rig and a rosebud, if thats your direction. I know Robb and his sons, but have not seen them in many years, so I don't know what they are doing now. Last I heard the son's were cleaning and bagging Hesperus coal and selling it in your area. That was reafirmed a few years ago by the coal retailer up where I live. If you want to do the work they were doing when I actually knew them, then your list of tools can be shortened to a good forge, coal or gas, an anvil and a post vice. You have two of the three and are well on your way on the third. Nearly a home run. Maybe you could be a little more specific on your direction. My passion is simple traditional tools and architectural iron. I have many friends who have the same passion for forged and fabricated, and others who do anything from bumpers to giant weather vanes totally fabbed. Its a wide open deal and you have tools to chose what "rings your anvil". If hot iron is it, then you can't beat a trip to Robb & Sons for a great beginning. Prolly anything from hanging out to taking a class. So, I'd recommend taking a class or attending some workshops and demonstrations. If you aren't into people, then don't feel like the lone stranger, but you can always bite the bullet, take a class, then head for the ole cave with a pretty good foundation to build from solo. Thats sorta what I did. Worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I talked with Robb a couple of months ago and he's still selling coal; but call first and be sure he has some in stock! I learned on my own; took years back before the internet and few good smithing books around. The NMABA meetings are every other month; but there may be a hiatus because of the state fair. We usually have a 2 stations with coal forges Trailer on the "Street of Yesteryear" and do continuous demos and sell what we make. Usually pays for my propane for a 1/2-1 year! You may want to watch the website and just show up when there is a demo you are interested. Last meeting I talked with the host and hope to be doing a short show&tell for tooling you can make without a machine shop and is useful at the start of meetings for a while. Robb Gunther has demonstrated many a time for the group. If you only do a few items you don't need many tongs. I have one tong rack near the forges that covers about 80% of the wide range of stuff I do and 3 other tong racks that hold the once in a blue moon tongs that are *extremely* useful; but for a very few projects. One thing I have down here is a small Pop, son & grandson scrapyard that you can go in and rummage the piles. You never know what you will find. I've stopped buying tools at the scrapyard as I was hauling so many home from the scrapyard for 20 USCents a pound---4# sledge head for US$1 for example. Of course sometimes you don't find anything and sometimes you haul 800# home. It's about 6 miles from my shop off of exit 156 on I-25. Always call first to make sure they are open, (Saturdays to noon!) Amador Recycling. I usually go twice a week myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Welcome from the Ozark mountains. Good to see you posting and it looks like you have things well in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Welcome aboard from the Buckeye state. As a machinist/blacksmith i am kind of jealous of your tools. One question though, did you mean pneumatic die grinders and not hydraulic? If they are hydraulic could we get a pic? As far as Kens tongs go i can not answer but i can say i have heard nothing but positive reviews. And you really can not beat the price when you factor in material and time to make tongs. Just a quick look but at an average of around $10 a set, ya really can not beat that. Years ago i was diagnosed as dyslexic hyperactive, my problem is loosing interest in a project just as i am coming down the home stretch in completion. I have dozens of unfinished projects lying about that i will get back to "someday". And after my foray into the middle east with the Army i was diagnosed with PTSD so i am also an introvert now a days. Anyway stay safe and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyson Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) Eh nothing to be jealous of. If you’re a machinist you’ve got the skills that I should have. Anyone can buy tools. Can’t just buy skills. Lol good catch - not hydraulic. Pneumatic. Can’t edit that out now though, gotta leave that stupid to shame myself to any readers to come lol. I was loosely diagnosed and treated for ADD as a kid but always thought it was BS. However as an adult that struggles to focus on or finish anything, I realize it was probably correct. I too have dozens, if not 100+ projects half finished. Currently have 3 project motorcycles that have been sitting untouched for 2-3 years. I always blame time and money, but I realize that if I didn’t pick up 800 new projects in the last year then I would have more time and money to finish those projects that have been sitting. To make it even worse, my side hustle outside of my regular 60 hour work week is buying/fixing/selling broken things. Everything from tools to electronics to furniture to cars. And I always give those projects precedence because I have money tied up in them that I need to get back. Hobbies always go to the back burner. Sorry to hear about your PTSD from the service. I can’t begin to imagine what that is like. Hope you’ve got a decent handle on it, even if being an introvert isn’t your first choice its better than some alternatives. On 7/7/2022 at 6:15 PM, TWISTEDWILLOW said: i only suggest kens because you mentioned possibly buying tongs an they are relatively cheap, I’ve got an absurd amount of short round stock that I was going to take to the scrap yard that I didn’t even consider keeping for something like tongs because its all mild structural steel. I can’t remember if it is 1” or 1.25” but they’re about 12” long. Would that be worthwhile hanging onto? I’ve probably got 2-300 pieces like that. I’ll have to consider Ken’s for sure though. On 7/7/2022 at 7:08 PM, George N. M. said: If you are in an urban area you may want to think about a coke or charcoal solid fuel forge. A treadle hammer may be an alternative to a power hammer. The sound and vibration of a power hammer may be the most intrusive of what you are doing for the neighbors. Time and worth are interesting. I have very little free time, but what that is worth I guess depends on who you ask. I will say that in general, if I can buy something that is already built for close to the price that I can make one, I will. That means that I have to be patient. I often buy my tools at estate sales, in bulk lots, online, etc so that I can get them at a steep discount. I will look into the local groups. I know that I should open up a bit and use the resources available to me beyond the internet community. I’m curious why you suggest a coke forge being in the city? Just the noise? Admittedly, I don’t like the idea of the maintenance required in operating a charcoal forge. I know my friend that introduced me to things switched from propane to charcoal but he lives out of the city and has the space to store a truck load of material. He was wanting to be able to get more heat than he could with his little 3 Venturi burner propane unit. But I don’t know if he ever considered forced air and different burners to get better heat. I personally figured the cleanliness of propane and availability just down the road from me was worth the trade off in cost/noise. I have used a treadle hammer briefly a couple times and the action felt clunky to me. But so did all of it, so that probably wasn’t a good measure. I do know that a power hammer would be louder and less neighbor friendly, but the way I justify it in my head is that if I use a power hammer, only during the proper hours, then the time it would save me over hand hammering everything taking many times longer. I have also considered that my father has shown interest in this as well, and physically, he is in kind of rough shape so power tools make things possible for him that otherwise would be completely off the table. With that said, I think that a hydraulic press will be my focus before a power hammer as far as the big tools go. For ease of operation (tool speed) and noise. I live in the NW part of the city. I used to check the antique shops for smithing stuff, but have found that once it became a more popular craft that was televised prices on everything even in there skyrocketed. So I haven’t looked in a couple years. I ought to still though. On 7/7/2022 at 7:17 PM, anvil said: Well, thats a hard act to follow. We get a lot of people here asking for advice. Most are pretty rank beginners. I’d say I fall into the category of beginner very firmly. I’ve made a couple ugly pieces of hot metal over the years, but nothing that would make me say I have any experience. I have been passively researching the topic for several years, and in the last year or two started compiling articles and reading forums and such to try and point myself in the right direction. Unfortunately, as it goes with the internet, there is no filter that stops people from posting bad advice. So it is possible that what I’ve read and watched wasn’t the best idea, but was posted and copied by a lot of people that didn’t know any better. Lots of people seem interested in regurgitating information they’ve seen, but never actually put into use, so I try to do my best to filter out what seems to come from knowledgeable people with experience versus knowledge from people that know how to copy and paste. That still requires my judgement on an unknown subject though so plenty of room for error on all sides. Considering I already purchased all the things that I did for the forge, I’ll probably roll on with making it since I can’t return any of it anyway and I’m already out a few hundred bucks. Assuming there isn’t any safety concerns with the materials, I’ll try and run it until it fails and then do it again. I hate to do it that way, but being I can’t get money back on what I have, its going to be a loss either way. I do feel like I’ve got more than enough to get started, other than obviously need the forge. I don’t have a rosebud for my torch, which I often kick myself for. I really need to buy some new stuff. I haven’t had any contact with Robb or his sons in years. I was only around them a few times through my friend who took a class there with them and then ended up being friendly with Robb. He drug me along when he was going to their places. I couldn’t say what they are doing to be honest. Last I saw them they had the big school out East of the city about half an hour. I drive by there sometimes, but never stop in. I don’t know them well enough to do that. My direction specifically is kind of all over the place. Knives for sure. Small artsy stuff - decor type things. Accent pieces for larger items - so like maybe some ornate twists to go on a security door instead of the same old generic basket twist. Or maybe some fancy brackets for shelves. Or some feet for a custom table. Who knows. In fabrication, I mostly build gates, but I don’t do that much anymore. I also work on cars and bikes, so being able to forge small custom pieces for mounts or accents. Also why I’d like to be able to melt. I’d like to be able to play with making some small thin custom panels with a planishing hammer for gauge covers, trim pieces, etc out of bronze/copper/brass. Body jewelry - I’ve got some ideas in my head about mixing wood/metal for some neat pieces. I have a family member that is sort of highly modified and always thought that the price she paid for tunnels/gauges for some really ugly stuff was absurd. That’s some of the things. I could probably sit and come up with a number of other odds and ends I’d like to make custom instead of buying what’s commercially available. On 7/7/2022 at 7:17 PM, ThomasPowers said: The NMABA meetings are every other month; but there may be a hiatus because of the state fair. I’ll definitely look into the NMABA stuff and if I can clear some time try and check out some in person stuff too. I don’t know how many tongs I’ll need considering my ideas are all over the place. I haven’t been to Amador but I appreciate that heads up. I happen to have a connection to the Acme recycling group through my work and they’ve told me that I could buy scrap off of them if I ever felt like walking any of the yards. I intended to do that when it came time to find big iron for hammer/press frames, but I think I may have covered myself with what I was able to bring home from the current project I’m on. It didn’t occur to me though to go and look for tool steel or tools themselves. Edited July 9, 2022 by Mod30 Excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Since you already have the repair chops; finding tools at the scrapyard that just need a little TLC is a good fit. Wire brush and some oil fixes most I pick-up. The 1951 Delta Jointer, 200# with stand, needed a new motor, etc. It seems a lot of people just dump "Grandpa's garage" at the scrapyard. But of course you can never tell what will be their from time to time! Recently a water well driller shut down his business and flooded the scrapyard and most recently Wally World is remodeling and dumping all the metal at the scrapyard. I don't need the shelving units; but I did pick up some pegboard and some 20 amp electrical sockets. If you have room to store it, keep the round stock. If nothing else for trading stock! I prefer medium carbon steel sucker rods for tongs over mild and sucker rod seems pretty easy to find out here. Also may I commend to your attention the TPAAAT; last year I found a hoard of blacksmithing stuff just a couple of blocks from where I was working! (3 power hammers for instance!) I bought it all and sold off most of it to end up with the forge, 25# LG, cone mandrel, large postvise, etc that I kept for *FREE*! Never would have happened except that I had talked with lots of people about my being a blacksmith. Finally; I've been to a couple blacksmith estate sales only open to members of the NMABA to start with; much better prices than antique sales! (A few of us have been joking that we are just trading tools amongst ourselves as we age out...as we remember a piece that was sold at a previous estate sale and is back on the market at this one.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 17 hours ago, jtyson said: Smoothset refractory mortar which is comparable to Mizzou This is an area where online how too videos not knowing enough to know what they're talking about and company marketing departments really muddy the waters. For decades, maybe centuries there was a clear difference between furnace "refractory" and refractory "cement / mortar" now unfortunately the misuse of the terms has caused companies to call proper refractories cement or mortar and now you're throwing the dice when you buy. Also, in what way is the Smoothset comparable to Mizzou? Rated temperature isn't what makes the difference between a flame face refractory and a product intended to cement bricks together. Unfortunately you can't depend on marketing department guys to know or care. Nor do most of the guys on the interwebs where the only qualification you need to be an "expert" is a camera and connection. That isn't on you, it's just a fact of breaking into a new craft via Youtube. Unfortunately the 30% kaolin clay binder doesn't fire hard so it will rub off in time. Not firing hard is part of it's mechanism that prevents molten, glazes, glass, etc. from firing to the furnace work, the zirconium component is so far below it's vitrifying temperature at molten steel temps nothing sticks to it. We are constantly shoving steel into HOT forges so if the kiln wash rubs off it just won't last. ITC-100 used to be the only commonly known effective kiln wash and on the upside is about 70% zirconia silicate. When propane forges were beginning to be a common tool it was all that was known and it will protect from borax based welding fluxes. It's gone from legend to myth as a propane forge kiln wash. It works just not for very long. But with passing time better products have been discovered and developed. About writing hydraulic instead of pneumatic. . . Join the club, anybody who posts very often does something like that every once in a while and we all get a good natured laugh. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Coke is a better fuel than coal in an urban area because it produces little or no smoke and odor. You mayget a bit when starting the fire with wood and/or coal but once the fire is started, no smoke. A properly tended coal fire can have minimal smoke but coke produces less since the volitiles have already been driven off. That said, a coke fire is fussier than a coal fire because you have to keep some blast air going to it and have to plan your work accordingly. For example, if you are at your bench doing something you have to turn around and give the blower a couple of turns every few minutes if you are planning to go back to forging when you are done with the bench work. With a coke fire you can go into the house to get something cold to drink or relieve yourself and be back in time to add some air. With a coal fire you can go have lunch and then fan up the fire again with no problem. On the other hand, there are some folk who like the smell of coal smoke. I've had the coal forge at demonstrations and had older folk come up and say they haven't smelled that odor in many years and it reminds them of their childhood. Truth about the inflation in price of blacksmithing related "antiques" but sometimes you find something otherwise unavailable. And sometimes the seller does not know what they have. It's probably better to have something available and expensive than unavailable. When I was at the place on Central there wasn't much I needed or wanted but it was unusual to see that much in one place. When you enter there are 2 large rooms, left and right. The blacksmithing booth was in the right room (towards Central Ave.) about in the middle of the room, IIRC. This was a couple of years ago and the seller may or may not still be there. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyson Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Since you already have the repair chops; finding tools at the scrapyard that just need a little TLC is a good fit. It never occurred to me to check the scrap yard for tools to fix up. That could potentially be a new distraction waiting to happen. I don’t have the room to store the stock or anything. But I keep it all anyway. I need a 100x100 shop. My 25x30 garage is overflowing, have piles of stuff out under my carport, and a bunch of steel and other materials in my back yard. It is a little bit Sanford and Son over here. But yeah, if you think that those rounds would be valuable stock to hang onto I will. How about a grip of 3/4” bolts and hardware? All leftovers from a large box store build I’m on. I’ll probably only get a couple hundred bucks for it at the scrap yard but if it were valuable forging stuff, I’ll make a pile. 9 hours ago, Frosty said: This is an area where online how too videos not knowing enough to know what they're talking about and company marketing departments really muddy the waters. Well I can’t totally blame the internet here. The “comparable to mizzou” was something I discerned by reading the SDS. Maybe I wasn’t looking at all the right info though. I don’t know if I have permissions to do so, but I’ll try to attach the two SDS’s to show you what I was looking at for comparison and why I figured it may not be just as good, but close enough to be a negligible difference for the application. As for the ITC 100 I paid way too much for it, so I’ll use it but I did expect to be recoating pretty regularly. Everywhere I read said that it does require that. I am curious though, could you point me in the direction of whatever product on the market now is better? That way I can look that way for the next one. 7 hours ago, George N. M. said: Coke is a better fuel than coal in an urban area because it produces little or no smoke and odor. Maybe its because I’m young and part of the do less get more generation, but I just feel like at this point, propane is probably the better way for me to go. That way I can spend less time worrying about the fire and more time worrying about what’s in it. Maybe thats misguided thinking though. Also, as a safety professional, I’m leery about breathing the coal dust constantly because I know myself well enough to know that I won’t wear a respirator all the time and won‘ t shave my beard to wear one properly. I can move air and dissipate carbon monoxide easily from a propane set up. I agree about availability being important in general, but obviously haven’t experienced that in relation to blacksmithing. Something about the old time nature of the craft just doesn’t bring about any sense of urgency for tool acquisition in my mind. But I guess if I were mid swing on a commission piece and needed something special to get it done, that would be a different story. Either way, I should get back to checking those places for good deals. Edited July 9, 2022 by Mod30 Excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 You may want to back off on the quote feature. You don't need highlight an entire post, just what seems relevant. Otherwise you are taking up band width. Some of the folk here have dial up or equivalent and have to pay by how much data is received. So, less is better. In my case, if you are responding to what I said, about all you need to do is say, "George, ..." rather than quote my who post. This is a conversation. You don't have to repeat back everything someone said before you respond. Propane and solid fuel forges each have their advantages. For some things one does the job better than others. You may want to try some of each out if you have to have just one. This might be where getting into a blacksmithing organization my have an advantage. There is a fine line and difficulty in deciding on which side of the line something is when deciding if something is a resource or just junk. This was an issue when I was a County Attorney and we would get complaints about a particular property getting junky. Folk would say, "That's not junk! That;s my stuff. I moved to the country so that I could have my stuff!" We tried strike a balance. I remember telling one guy that a stack of limbs and logs were not firewood until it was cut, split, and stacked. And we didn't have a problem with someone having a project car. It was the 3 or 4 parters which were feeding the project that were the problem. And, of course it had to visible from the public road to be considered a problem for the county. Some people built a fence or a pole barn to keep their stuff out of sight. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Bolts that are plated are TOXIC if put in the forge. I tend to pick up good clean nuts and bolts at the scrapyard to have enough on hand to not need a trip to town for basic repairs and construction. Of course my shop is 20x60 with 10' walls and I still have a scrap pile; OK I have a couple of scrap piles including one just of real wrought iron. (Note it's on the side of the shop towards my bedroom and I'm not amiss to shot patterns in the propanel wall of that part of the shop... Glenn sells a T shirt with "In Rust We Trust" the motto of smiths that use scrap/scrounged materials. I tend to find stuff at the scrapyard because it's what I do for fun, that and working in my shop. I have an "allowance" I can spend for all my vices---including vises and it sure stretches farther at the scrapyard! Now what to do with the 3/4" cold rolled mild that the Wally lay-away shelves used to run on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 hours ago, jtyson said: short round stock that I was going to take to the scrap yard that I didn’t even consider keeping for something like tongs because its all mild structural steel. I can’t remember if it is 1” or 1.25” but they’re about 12” long. Would that be worthwhile hanging onto? I’ve probably got 2-300 pieces like that That's good stock for a lot of different projects (even if not for tongs), and well worth holding onto -- certainly more than the 0=$0.20/pound than you'll get at the scrapyard. 2 hours ago, George N. M. said: You may want to back off on the quote feature. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyson Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 Well first thread and already got a warning. Guess I probably won’t last long here. Sorry to have inconvenienced you guys. I’ll stick to reading and avoid posting unless really necessary. Thanks for the welcome and answers to a few questions already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I've been moderated for a typo before; didn't stop me. Having stringent moderation is a feature of this site; I can have my grandkids read this site and not worry about what they may run across. (Or what their parents may run across!) You are, of course, welcome to leave; but you are also welcome to stay and try in the future to not to run afoul of the TOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 It’s not a big deal we all get moderated once in awhile and get the occasional warning, just don’t use the quote feature for a quote before yours and when you do use it just highlight the part your wanting to quote instead of the entire post, It uses excessive bandwidth unnecessarily so when we can we try to do our part to keep it down, you’ll be alright! it just takes a little bit to get a feel for how everything operates around here, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.