What are the easiest selling items for a new Blacksmithing business?

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

Hey guys,

I'd love to chat some of your experienced smiths about the business side of things. I've taken a few courses, including a tool making seminar. I'd love to start selling some pieces. But I'm just not familiar with the market at all haha. I make and sell knives quite a bit, and that's generally been my focus, but their return per hour invested is pretty harsh, and I just really enjoy tool making and spending more time on the anvil.

If anyone that's experienced and would be kind enough to chat and help me out, please send me a message, it would be very appreciated.

Here's some of my shop's heavier equipment, just to give a vague idea of what I have available to work with:

MZ75 power hammer

30 ton hydraulic press

Bridgeport knee mill

South Bend 14 inch lathe

2x72 grinder

 

Thanks,

Nick

[George N. M.]

Dear Nick,

First, browse through the IFI thread on the business side of blacksmithing.  There is a lot good and varied information there which I won't repeat.

It depends if you want the craft to support you as a full time business or a hobby that will pay for itself or a supplemental income on top of your day job.  Each has a separate set of parameters and ways to approach your goal.

You have to know your market.  You probably won't sell many high end knives at a Christmas craft show but you might with a booth at a large gun show.  You have to pick and choose your events for which will have a demographic that will want to buy your goods and which ones have a reasonable fee for a space.  Some events are free to anyone who wants to set up and for others the organizers make a significant amount of their money on space rental.  If the booth fee is $100 you don't have to sell much to "make your nut" (cover overhead) but if the booth fee is several thousand dollars you have to make a lot of sales to get to the zero point.

I don't have any experience with selling via etsy, ebay, or otherwise on the internet.  Others can offer advice about that.

Most importantly, selling and business is a complete different set of skills and tools than knifemaking or blacksmithing or any other craft.  Recognize that and approach it that way.

BTW, very nice knives.  However, as you say, a knife is seldom a good financial return on time invested.  There is just too much fiddly bench time involved.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[JHCC]

Check with the Small Businesses Division of Empire State Development. Regardless of the specific product you're making, they should be able to help you put together a business plan and figure out the answers to all your questions -- and sometimes even what are the right questions for you to ask. My wife is opening a yarn shop in ten days, and we would never have gotten to this point without the support and guidance of the Ohio Small Business Development Center (SBDC).

And yes, lovely knives. 

[Glenn]

5 hours ago, Nicholas_Killmeier said:

the easiest selling items for a new Blacksmithing business?

Anything under $20 that looks good in a double wide.  Bill Epps

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

Thank you guys.

I'm aiming for a prosumer level of smithing. I want this to be a great hobby that can self sustain, and if it goes well enough, maybe something that can fuel an early retirement.

I'm primarily aiming for e-commerce. I'm in NY unfortunately. Gunshows don't really happen here. Fleamarkets are everywhere but they're all pretty bottom dollar stuff. I'd probably do the county fairs because they're actually pretty great traffic for all kinds of people. There's also a huge horse show circuit here, might do those.

But primarily e-commerce.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I found that things made from easily recognizable things like horse shoes and RR spikes sold well. This door knocker was a hit and easy to make.

Same with the veritable steak flipper.

[ThomasPowers]

In horse country  Hoof cleaners made from half a horse shoe do well. Making the handle into a horses head ups the price.

[George N. M.]

Re-enactor event, American Civil War, Revolution, fur trade, medieval, etc. can be good events as well as ethnic festivals such as Irish, Scottish, Scandinavian, etc. can be good business opportunities.  The best weekend event I ever did was the Colorado Irish Festival where I did about $3k business and would have done more if I had had more stock.  The best events are those with lots of attendance and attract folk with disposable income.

If you want to talk about this more, PM me and we can exchange phone numbers.

BTW, what part of NY state are you in?  My late wife's family was from western NY, the Buffalo/Lockport area, where I've spent a good bit of time.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[anvil]

"S" hooks, Leaf Key chains, Candle holders, small lighting for wall, standing and table sizes, trivets, fire place sets, business card holders, to name a few. Your imagination is your only limit

[rockstar.esq]

Ditto on the business advice.  As far as what to make to attract commissions, I'd suggest products that every other smith isn't making.  

Baby Boomers are retiring in a huge tidal wave.  Demographically speaking, they have the kind of disposable income to allow for custom-made stuff.

I would suggest you look into making custom guitar parts like tremolo arms, pick guards, pickup rings, switch tips, and tuner and control knobs.  Blacksmithing is uniquely suited to ancillary music equipment like guitar and microphone stands.  99% of what is on the guitar stand market is either wood, or foam covered tubular steel.  Mic stands are incredibly visible opportunities for sculptural work.  

While on that topic, consider some overall aesthetic thematic options.  There's a huge part of the custom guitar market that is obsessed with "faux-relic".  Patinated brass and steel play well here. Paoletti guitars are a particularly good example of this.  

On the other hand, there are a lot of custom guitars which focus very heavily on shiny chrome like motorcycle parts.  Take a look at the Stewart Macdonald website to see how much a single chromed steel guitar part can cost.  All the classic guitar patterns are way out of patent so it's a relatively simple matter to get all the critical dimensions.  

One aesthetic that a ton of metalworkers overlook is art-deco.  Take a look at semi-hollow oriented customs like Duesenberg, or Gretsch for examples.  

There's a huge demographic overlap between tattoos, craft beers, and guitars.  The currently popular nautical themed art is easily done via laser engraving.  Lots of electric guitar's have access plates on the back where an enterprising smith could put a bottle opener.  

Guitar straps are typically held on with incredibly stupid buttons which threaten to drop your guitar on the ground.  There are locking designs, but most of them aren't aesthetically pleasing.  Along that same line, there's an opportunity to make metal strap hardware, brooches' and ancillary decorations in any number of themes.  

As a final thought, anybody wanting a horseshoe related application should take a look at the Bigsby tremelo system.  I suspect there are a fair number of country musicians who would be very excited about a horseshoe based Bigsby.  Especially if it's rusty and beaten to go with their faux relic aesthetic.

 

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

That's fairly interesting. I'm a musician and audio engineer as well. Years ago the first thing that got me started on this whole blacksmithing mess was actually casting solid brass bridges for my PRS guitars because I wanted to replace the aluminum ones. So I built a forge and experimented with casting a bit. Then I figured, I had a forge, why not an anvil? Downhill ever since haha.

However as much as I'd like to make custom parts for my guitars, I'm looking more for items I can stock and sell probably on a website. I'd love to do custom guitar parts, but it's not something I see selling easily as a prestock (at least not short term, I'm sure if I cranked out 20 of those PRS bridges they would eventually sell, but I'd need a reputation of stocking guitar parts, which might be tough).

[anvil]

Then your answer is clear. Go to the places that host those kinds of blacksmiths and figure out how to compete, Easy, Peasy.

[Frosty]

Nicholas: How do you expect to know what to keep in stock if you don't know what sells and to whom?  All 60,000 guys on the internet CAN do is bounce ideas, good easy fast selling products in the Mat Su Valley are different than in Anchorage 50 miles from here, if you go to more horse country it's different again. A person MIGHT sell a hoof pick once in a while in Anchorage but most horse owners in the city got one or more when they were outfitting themselves after or HOPEFULLY before buying a horse.

Some things are common almost anywhere, coat hooks, S hooks, bottle openers, hoof picks, etc. it pays to have a few available just in case. Are they going to be good sellers? That's a matter of trial and error or espionage on your part. That's checking out what other smiths are selling. 

Steam punk music, mike, etc. stands might be popular.

Regardless figuring out what YOU can sell, how much to stock, etc. is one of the things YOU have to do for yourself. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Nicholas_Killmeier]

What's the point of a blacksmith forum if not to ask these kinds of questions?

So everyone understands, there are no blacksmiths here, or very very few. There are no craft fairs. There's flea markets, but it's not what you think. these are low end crafts at best, and most commonly just a garage sale someone put on a booth. I've gone to county and state fairs all my life and I've seen like 2 blacksmith booths in 30 years. Most fairgrounds have sort of a built in "old time tools" type of exhibit where maybe someone will do a demonstration. But they're not there to sell stuff. They're there to do a demo (which I would love to do, but that's kind of a different topic). Literally our "craft fairs" are mostly middle aged women selling Pink Zebra garbage. There are no knife or gun shows. Closest is Lehigh Valley which is once a year and 3 hours away. There aren't even farriers around here. I mean there has to be a couple, but horses just aren't that big of a thing here anymore. And that's kind of a different skill right? I have no interest in becoming a farrier.

There's been a lot of awesome suggestions.

"go figure it out" is just not a helpful response. Obviously time, trial, and error will be the most beneficial eventually, but I'm just looking for suggestions to get me started, otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

[ThomasPowers]

I notice that there are 3 ABANA Affiliates listed for NY state; New Mexico is over twice as large and has *1*, (54K sq miles vs 121K sq miles).  I've met a number of smiths from NY at Quad-State.  Perhaps things are not as bleak as you think.  I'd attend a few affiliate meetings and ask around who might be closer to you.

(I've just been asked to submit work for a juried show out here because a craft jeweler has seen my iron work and wants to share a booth at a craft fair.)

[Frosty]

Nobody said you shouldn't ask your questions and we made the best suggestions we could. EVERYBODY who didn't start out working with or for an established professional blacksmith had to figure out these things. What worked here was to start as a farrier and develop a market and reputation so they could stop shoing horses, hopefully before their backs, knees and shoulders wore out. 

You got our best answers, just because they aren't what you WANTED to hear doesn't make them invalid or lessen your own responsibility. NY state is full of blacksmiths or all types but you have to look. Better still pick up the telephone and call a farrier, s/he may not be able to help directly but I'd bet tall odds s/he knows someone who does know. Asking them about what YOU should make isn't going to help but just asking blacksmithing questions might.

The internet SUCKS big smelly things for this kind of research. Talking to living humans on a telephone is orders of magnitude better but it is an acquired skill, it takes practice and patience. 

Don't give up and most certainly stop talking like your above post. If you're going to admit defeat if someone can't tell you exactly what you want to hear you aren't likely to make it in a piece work profession. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

1 hour ago, Nicholas_Killmeier said:

What's the point of a blacksmith forum if not to ask these kinds of questions?

I thought you were mainly interested in e-commerce. Everything listed to date will sell fairly well there. Just look up blacksmith on Etsy or eBay to get an idea what is being listed. If you already have a web site for your knives, throw in some of the items suggested to test the waters so to speak.

If you are not happy with the suggestions, why not tell us what you want to make, and we will give you feedback on that.

[natkova]

I think souvenirs .

Like some small axe stuck in stump.

Or small horshoes.

Folks nowdays dont like to work manualy like our ancestors, they like to have souvenirs  and to watch at it as we watch at pyramids.

 Or some horshoes,  small sycthes. i think tools that were used, but only for souvenirs will go good.

And iam sure one blacksmith need to be carpenter too if we say making axe handle, hewing and using planes.

 

On 4/1/2022 at 9:18 PM, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

I found that things made from easily recognizable things like horse shoes and RR spikes sold well. This door knocker was a hit and easy to make. Same with the veritable steak flipper.

Doorknockers really sell good in our place they say, because it s kind of symbol of country.

But they are differently shaped.

And they sell it like souvenirs,  one coppersmith suggested me to make that as "smith" i can bend better and forge  those 0 shape then coppersmiths can.
I don't know how they cut this straight line in middle (he use thin sheet metal not this one that is forged, i tried with thin snip to cut) but tin snips can't get in hole of bit.

[George N. M.]

Nick, yes, "craft" fairs can be kind of sad, bleak, and tacky.  However, there are lots of events around where a blacksmith booth can do well.  The best weekend I ever had was at the Colorado Irish Festival.  There are lots of various ethnic fairs, Scandanavian, Celtic, Greek, Italian, German, etc..  You can modify your inventory for each ethnicity.  There are also historical re=enactment events such as the North-South Skirmish Association (US Civil War), American Revolution, Mountain Man, SCA (medieval), various LARP events, etc..  I did well for a couple of years at the local Oktober Fest but kind of saturated the market.  Old time farm events are often good.  Basically, any place where folk congregate and have some disposable income.

I'm not sure where you are in NY but anywhere that attracts tourists or travellers may be a possibility.  Gift shops at tourist sites may buy your wares to resell if they connect with the site, e.g. miners' candlesticks at a mining museum, fire steels at a colonial site.

Probably most of us here have done the merchant gig at various events at one time or another.  Some folk like it.  Some folk, not so much.  Some don't find the kind of monetary return they want.

Not all events will work out.  Sometimes you won't sell enough to "make your nut" (cover your costs) and there are others where you will sell practically everything you brought.  Sometimes you can predict how you will do and others you will be surprised, both good and bad.  It all averages out in the end.

Obviously, I like making money from my craft and there have been some times in my life when it got me through the gaps between careers and jobs.  However, I greatly enjoy the social interaction with the customers and it is an ego boost when folk compliment your work.

If you do the demonstration route I have found that you can demo by yourself or you can sell by yourself.  I cannot do both.  If you want to do both you need to bring someone else along to do the selling while you forge.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Daswulf]

Just to say, there are Many small items that can sell well or not at Any craft fair. It Is worth testing the waters and getting yourself out there because I've had Tons of leads on other venues that I could do from people seeing my work. 

And if no one is selling blacksmith wares at the fair then it is an open market. 

[MickKrug]

George N.M. //There are also historical re=enactment events such as the North-South Skirmish Association (US Civil War), American Revolution, Mountain Man, SCA (medieval), various LARP events, etc..  I did well for a couple of years at the local Oktober Fest but kind of saturated the market.  Old time farm events are often good.  Basically, any place where folk congregate and have some disposable income.//

 Thanks George! I'm actually checking into these events myself! Started a Weld/Fab side business 3-4 years ago. i do small projects but, while chatting with David Einhorn and others, like yourself, I'm building up a forge and blacksmith shop in my business.

As I stated to David E. My son and I joined a C.W. Reenactment group here in Central Pa... I see the need for Reenactment gear as David mentions in his book: Civil War Blacksmithing. IE; Old time BBQ Grills, tent stakes, hooks for lamps, muskets, goods etc... if I get going on this, I may be able to be a suttler at C.W. events! 

Just bought this anvil (pic#1) from my boss at a HD Truck repair Co. he had two, the other was a 120# Fisher, pretty rough! 

Talked to my good friend Ed Claypool at Atlas Forge in Uniontown Pa. He stated that when demonstrating B.M people come running when they hear the ringing of the anvil :-)  I know it's not period but it is 118# enough to drag around with me to these events! 

My son (pic#2 with me) will eventually keep the business going, but for now loves the infantry/muskets!  

Pic# 3 is my anvil (213# Perrin) and Forge I'm setting up now in my weld shop!

Thanks to all of your comments!

Soli Deo Gloria!

BTW I'm going to fix/weld the top of the the anvil with hardened rod to resurface my new P.W! ;-)  

[George N. M.]

Actually, I don't think that the anvil in pic #1 is in that bad of a shape.  At least, not enough damage to go to the trouble of a proper Gunther style rebuild which is expensive, takes a fair amount of time, requires a fairly high level of welding skill, and carries some significant expense.  I would consider that anvil as just gettting broken in from what I can see in the photo.  I wouldn't do it.

BTW, a couple good looking federal foot sloggers.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

That is a good looking Peter Wright.

I know it's your anvil but if it were mine I would use it as it is. The minor edge wear is not bad enough to risk de laminating the HAZ by welding on the hardened forge welded on steel plate. Personally I do not like sharp edges on my anvil.

I'm envious of your Perrin anvil and forge. Any name on the forge? Kinda looks like a Canady Otto to me.

[Daswulf]

Hi MickKrug, Ed Claypool is a great guy. Peoples interest is peaked by the sound of an anvil ringing. Be ready for lots of chat and questions/comments. Mostly "what are you making?"

Have a sales table ready if you can and be ready for requests if you have the time. 

I don't recall being skunked at any event I've set up at. At very least I've made a little and got more leads to more suited events. I have more leads than sales stock and time. Make sure you factor in setup cost into the price. Cheap or free setup usually has cheaper purchasers. Higher dollar events usually bring in higher purchasers. Either way you have to make your money back and get some kind of profit to be able to continue. 

A good mix of affordable items and some higher dollar items fills everything out on the table. Some attention grabbing items lure them in to look at the whole lot. 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Mick, glad to have you. Sign the boy up too, it's never too early to start working addicting a new blacksmith you know.  

Tell Dave Frosty says hi next time you see him please. 

An old rule of thumb that still works is. under $20 and fits in a pocket or purse sells well. The price may have doubled recently though. Some things are pretty universal like bottle openers and coat or S hooks. Flint strikers are popular, especially if you have a piece of flint to go with.

Frosty The Lucky.