4340 steel

[Houjous]

My brother in law wants to give me a nice piece of metal for Xmas. I settled on 4340 because when I'm good enough to use good metal I want my first project to be a hammer head. I would be looking to do a 1.5lbs-2lbs head but where ever I go to buy they want me to order a foot long minimum costing closer to $300. Realistically spending more than 60usd on the high end is too much money for that family. If 4340 is just going to be too expensive what would a good alternative be?  Sorry if this is a repeat. Thanks for reading anyways. 

[Frosty]

Medium carbon, 1045-1060 though an axle makes fine hammer heads and can be had for scrap price.

Why do you like 4340 for hammer heads?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Stash]

I made a hammer from 1045- a simple carbon steel and it has done well for me. I did it in a class taught by Nathan Robertson, and at the time, was the alloy he used for all his hammers.

Steve

[dickb]

A hammer is a poor choice for a beginner. The odds are very much against producing anything useable or pleasing to the new blacksmith. 

As per Frosty's post, used car axels are just about perfect and very cheap or free at local shops that repair cars/trucks. 

Machine shops everywhere routinely throw away one or two foot leftover pieces of brand new 1045 steel. Perfect for hammers.   Not worth cluttering up their shop with them. Just be polite and ask. 

[Houjous]

Frosty The reason I asked about 4340 because a few sources suggested that was the best material for hammers. I figured 3-4 different webpages couldn't be wrong. 

dickb I understand that a hammer is a poor choice for a beginner. What I was trying to say was that my brother in law wanted to buy a nice piece of metal for me. I figured it would be best to look for something that even if i can't build now. It will be something that eventually make and I'll think of them every time i use it. I already have a plethora of scrap metal to practice on and he's adamant about giving me some stock. 

 I'll take a look at some 1040 steel price thanks!

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Have them hold off on the metal as a gift until you get a lot more hammer time. And who knows, down the road you may want a piece of say  W-1 to make a blade. W-1 is not that expensive, nor is O-1 from suppliers like MSC, ENCO, etc..

Realistically many scrap items work perfectly fine and are far less in cost than new. Plus it is fun to mention converting some item into another one. The only steel I buy new is when I need something like O-1, A-2, etc for specific tools.  I bought 7,200# of 2.125" 4140 at a govt surplus auction for $140. They were new turret locks that the keyways were made out of spec.  We used that material for years in my machine shop for various projects.  Scrap reuse is a good way to go.

[ThomasPowers]

I can understand wanting to give a gift of pristine stock; why not a short length of H-13 to make a hammer eye punch from?  I would check small local machine shops for drops of the steels you want.   Remember buying stock way oversized is NOT a good idea too.

[Goods]

I thought someone else might bring this up, but 4340 can be tricky on the heat treat. 1045 is much easier to heat treat and will give the need results. Should also be less expensive…

[Frazer]

H13 can be a little finicky to harden too. I've had reasonable success at the home shop, but it's nearly impossible to do it "by the book" without an oven. It's great steel for tools, but from an ease of use/forging perspective it's certainly not for the faint of heart.

I also wouldn't make a hammer out of H13.

[ThomasPowers]

Which was NOT what I suggested:  "why not a short length of H-13 to make a hammer eye punch"  H-13 is a great tool steel for tools that get buried in hot steel like punches and slitting chisels.  I'm taking an H13 slitting chisel to a dishing hammer workshop I hope to have this weekend.  (If my dentist doesn't yank my few remaining lower teeth right before the workshop!)

[Frazer]

I understand that. He could make the hammer, punch and drift from 1045 with less of the hassle of playing with tool steels. That's what we did over the weekend.

I have several H13 tools, and a few others that are S7. You have years of experience... Would you give a someone bar of either one to make his (I presume) first hammer eye punch?

[ThomasPowers]

Depends on if I liked them or not...I managed to cottage cheese the end of my first piece of H-13;  Of course I managed to save the rest of the project and it's the slitting chisel I'm bringing this weekend.  I have some large axle I'm saving for hammers; most likely close to 1050. Now I have power; I can use my old 9" milwaukee angle grinder to cut it into suitable lengths, the screw press to make a nice flat spot diametrically opposite to punch from and the bader to clean it up.

[Frosty]

On 12/4/2021 at 5:12 PM, Houjous said:

Frosty The reason I asked about 4340 because a few sources suggested that was the best material for hammers. I figured 3-4 different webpages couldn't be wrong. 

There are too many steels that make excellent hammers. Using one that adds another dimension to heat management and heat treatment takes 4340 right off the "best" shelf. 

3-4 or 30-40 web sites most certainly can be wrong, especially blacksmithing sites. Many sites, especially Youtube perpetuate and amplify myth. There is no governing body to make someone making a claim online to show evidence let alone proof of their claim. Think about it, the ONLY qualifications necessary to be a Youtube "Expert!!!" are a video camera and Yt account.

Just the term "BEST," is a myth. There really isn't a best anything, especially where blacksmithing is concerned. I've already turned this into a long enough ramble I won't go into "best" myth. It IS however an excellent red flag to signal opinion vs. fact. Best is very subjective, depending on the: job, end use, person, marketing, etc. It isn't a stand alone quality with a general meaning.

That's the inherent problem learning things from scratch on the internet, a person doesn't know enough to filter the good from the huge majority of wrong often dangerously wrong imaginings of know nothings.

We've all been there though with experience one takes anything they read online with copious quantities of salt. I still get sucked in though I try to keep it to myself until I can have the site reviewed by friends. Many of those folk are Iforge members though I DO have other friends, just not as many. My Iforge friends will call me if I go off the rails, go into rant mode or start rambling on a false premise, sometimes I'm so far off the rails they'll call me on the open forum. Usually because I've said something dangerous a person without adequate knowledge of experience might try. 

I am Deeply grateful for those friends, I couldn't live with myself If I said something and got people hurt or worse.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

36 minutes ago, Frosty said:

There really isn't a best anything, especially where blacksmithing is concerned. I've already turned this into a long enough ramble I won't go into "best" myth. It IS however an excellent red flag to signal opinion vs. fact. Best is very subjective, depending on the: job, end use, person, marketing, etc. It isn't a stand alone quality with a general meaning.

If someone claims that something is "BEST", a quick way to discern whether or not they know what they're talking about is to ask, "Best in what way?" If they have objective criteria to support that claim (e.g., easy to forge, easy to heat treat, appropriate hardness/toughness/tensile strength/whatever for the particular application, readily available, affordable, etc), then you have something to work with. If not, not.