Ramsberg Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Not sure where to put this, but since many people here will be handling steel handled by other people, or passing their work on, this seems relevant. The link contains some good information but turns political toward the end of the article. For that reason it has been removed. And a link to the non-peer reviewed study referenced. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v2 Click on the "download PDF" to view it in full. There hasn't yet been time for people to duplicate testing, so this test only gives an idea of how long COVID-19 or SARS-CoV-2 survives on surfaces, but it should help people continue work while minimizing the spread of the virus. If other people have found more information regarding the above, please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyGoatLady Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Thanks for putting this up. I hadn't even thought of this. The only new steel I have is a stick of 3/8" round rod I bought a few days ago. Every bit of information we can learn at this time is good to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 There is a coronavirus thread running, probably a better place for this. Admin will move it if necessary. Don't worry about the notice, they always let you know why and where things are moved. They're just direct and don't do nicey nicey. Obnoxious bumpkins that they are. I'm seeing lots of preliminary opinions and taking them all with a grain of salt, the virus has only been on the radar for a couple months. China's typical silence doesn't count, everything that goes wrong for dictatorships is someone else's fault you know. I've see this article already and it appears to be well founded but I don't have the expertise to judge. Hopefully Slag will read it and offer an expert opinion. Good link Caleb, thanks. I don't see much risk from new steel but if you're concerned, (NOT a bad thing) mix a 10% Chlorox (any chlorine laundry bleach) solution and spray or wipe it down. End of threat. Period. Wash your hands, stay back from folks, sick or not, take Zicam if you go out and a good multi vitamin even if you don't. I'm sipping an Airborne as I type. anyway, all the usual and be careful out there. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 I see, yes, it's been moved to the "everything else" section. I'd never noticed the previous thread on the coronavirus here before, because it's a tucked away little corner of this site. Speaking of being direct, it seems more logical to me to have an official sticky in the heaviest traffic area with blacksmith specific information, such as how to avoid enabling the spread of this pandemic and irresponsible to put such a potentially vital discussion in a much lower traffic area. To be clear, I'm not talking about the thread I started, but official blacksmith oriented covid information in general being a sticky in the heaviest traffic area of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Most adults are smart enough to see there are different areas for different information, and not jam it all in one place, its not really that hard to scroll down the page and read various topics. Viruses have nothing to do with smithing, when the metal gets hot the virus dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve Sells said: Most adults are smart enough to see there are different areas for different information, and not jam it all in one place, its not really that hard to scroll down the page and read various topics. Where is the "READ THIS FIRST" thread stuck? Is it where "adults will scroll down to see"? 2 hours ago, Steve Sells said: Viruses have nothing to do with smithing, when the metal gets hot the virus dies This is a dangerously ignorant statement. What of forged objects sold to others? That you're an administrator here, who can't take direct criticism without responding spitefully about an issue of such critical worldwide importance is highly disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Data: People who are carrying the virus, but not yet showing symptoms have a higher viral load than people who are showing symptoms. The range of incubation time is between 2 days and over 11 days, some reports indicate up to 15 days. Scenario: An order for wall hooks is made, and it's to be shipped to the customer. What must the blacksmith do to ensure that, if they are infected and not yet showing symptoms, they are not passing on the virus to the customer, and thus people in contact with said customer, when they handle and package the finished work? That's just one scenario where blacksmiths could spread this virus and not even know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 As your friend I suggest you drop this Caleb, Steve is our prime direct not nicey nicey, Admin. Take a breath and do NOT reply, you're crossing a line in several senses. You are being snide in response to not liking how things are done here. This is Glenn's house, we're guests, if Admin messages you at least be courteous, if you can't be silent. I'm not admin or more than a long time member, I get messages, even been put on moderated a couple times, it happens. I'm not going to mince words but I'm not crossing lines. It takes practice but IFI is mostly self regulating members will warn folk if they're getting out of line so Admin isn't forced to take action. Please don't make Admin illustrate. DANG I wasn't fast enough! Caleb, take a break, have a cookie or something and let yourself cool off! Below is Read This First as it appears on the Iforge homepage. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Read This First is also a sticky in many of the sections and a link to it is posted in just about every newbie thread. I've probably linked it hundreds of times myself to those who are first time posters. Some folks just don't pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Ramsberg said: Not sure where to put this, but since many people here will be handling steel handled by other people, or passing their work on, this seems relevant. The link contains some good information but turns political toward the end of the article. For that reason it has been removed. Thank you for the link Ramsberg, most informative and free of the usual fluff and ads. The story about the naming of the Coronavirus is pathetic and reflects the incompetence and irrelevance of the so called leaders who only lead their own careers and income source. Let's hope we reach the top of the Gaussian bell soon and start the descent towards reduced numbers of infections. Stay safe, stay home, wash your hands, don't touch your face, clean everything that has been touched by others including parcels, delivery, letters. If you can't find sanitizer, use windex, or make your own sanitizer with ethanol and aloe gel or similar moisturizer. Don't get obsessed with the alarmism of media. They get paid to get more viewers to the screen who in turn will consume more advertising, that is their job, not information or education. Selling is their job. You don't need to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 https://www.officer.com/blogs/blog/21129968/please-read-between-the-lines-of-sensationalism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Your post on coronavirus "has been moved to the "everything else" section. I'd never noticed the previous thread on the coronavirus here before, because it's a tucked away little corner of this site." Everything Else has 28,697 posts. That is a lot of posts to hide. it seems more logical to me to have an official sticky in the heaviest traffic area with blacksmith specific information, such as how to avoid enabling the spread of this pandemic and irresponsible to put such a potentially vital discussion in a much lower traffic area. IForgeIron is a blacksmithing and metal working site, not a medical web site. People who are carrying the virus, but not yet showing symptoms have a higher viral load than people who are showing symptoms. They could be in the incubation period of the virus, OR just be carriers and not develop the virus. There is no way of knowing until the test results comeback and are confirmed as a true (not false) positive. What must the blacksmith do to ensure that, if they are infected and not yet showing symptoms, they are not passing on the virus to the customer, and thus people in contact with said customer, when they handle and package the finished work? That's just one scenario where blacksmiths could spread this virus and not even know it. The key wording here is not knowing or showing symptoms. If they do not know or show symptoms they have no reason to take any precautions above normal care. Think of the letter you post at the outside box to avoid people, rather than to go inside the building. The employee emptying the box is exposed to each and every letter that was dropped in the box. It then goes to the sorting table and exposes the entire building. As the letter moves through the sorting machinery it comes in contact with the machinery and all the letters that follow as well as the air in the building. Moving to another location exposes trucks, airplanes, etc as well as their letters and packages. Finally the letter carrier handles each and every letter or package on their entire route and puts your mail in your mail box. Once you handle the box bringing it into your house, then open the box, any virus that was maybe packaged by the blacksmith that did not know they may have been infected, or not showing any symptoms, seems small compared to everyone else handling the box. Spread of viruses is caused by aerosolized droplets, moist contacts, etc.much more than hard surfaces. Copper, silver, and gold are lethal for micro-organisms. Heat such as forging temperatures is deadly on viruses, organic matter, etc. Detergents, bleach, and hydrogen peroxide are cleaning and disinfectant materials to get rid of all manner of things that can make you sick. Bottom line is to take precautions and avoid exposure. Clean and disinfect as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Frosty, thanks, but my concern for the future of my account here is way less than my concern for people's lives. I'm staggered by the dismissive nature with which this pandemic is being treated by so many people that are in positions to help protect those in their community. But, maybe that's because I recently lived in a building, that during the Spanish Flu, had dozens of corpses stacked in it like cordwood. And that my dad is nearing 80 and on chemo, a combination of which is not remotely unique in this world. Less people in his position would be killed by this, if more people in positions of authority took some sort of responsibility for the wellbeing of people in their communities. "If they do not know or show symptoms they have no reason to take any precautions above normal care." This approach kills people. Straight up, it kills people. It already has, and it will continue to, kill people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crew Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Ramsberg Your location is not posted. Where did you recently live ? Each person in what ever level of authority is making decisions based upon less than expert knowledge. If there were coordinated statements or laws based upon the best research available the chaos would not be as wide spread. Each person - entity - government - authority in what ever form has its own agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, Ramsberg said: Frosty, thanks, but my concern for the future of my account here is way less than my concern for people's lives. Ramsberg, It is quite obvious you are deeply concerned about this virus. Whether you see it or not, we all are. But this forum is hosted in Glenn's living room. We operate by his rules. (I know, I've broken them several times to my disdain.) I would recommend you heed Frosty's suggestion and take a deep breath and not "poke the bears". (administrators) I see no dismissive-ness within our community toward the severity of this pandemic. The mere fact you've been a member since 2008 and have made 326 posts without sharing your location indicates to me a lack of willingness to genuinely become a part of this community, so I am not so sure you have the position to chastise us for what you consider our lack of concern for people's lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Reference: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Take everyday precautions Avoid close contact with people who are sick. Take everyday preventive actions: Clean your hands often Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing, or having been in a public place. If soap and water are not available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol. To the extent possible, avoid touching high-touch surfaces in public places – elevator buttons, door handles, handrails, handshaking with people, etc. Use a tissue or your sleeve to cover your hand or finger if you must touch something. Wash your hands after touching surfaces in public places. Avoid touching your face, nose, eyes, etc. Clean and disinfect your home to remove germs: practice routine cleaning of frequently touched surfaces (for example: tables, doorknobs, light switches, handles, desks, toilets, faucets, sinks & cell phones) Avoid crowds, especially in poorly ventilated spaces. Your risk of exposure to respiratory viruses like COVID-19 may increase in crowded, closed-in settings with little air circulation if there are people in the crowd who are sick. Avoid all non-essential travel including plane trips, and especially avoid embarking on cruise ships. ------------------------------- World Health Organization Advice for the public Basic protective measures against the new coronavirus Stay aware of the latest information on the COVID-19 outbreak, available on the WHO website and through your national and local public health authority. Most people who become infected experience mild illness and recover, but it can be more severe for others. Take care of your health and protect others by doing the following: Wash your hands frequently Regularly and thoroughly clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or wash them with soap and water. Why? Washing your hands with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand rub kills viruses that may be on your hands. Maintain social distancing Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing. Why? When someone coughs or sneezes they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person coughing has the disease. Avoid touching eyes, nose and mouth Why? Hands touch many surfaces and can pick up viruses. Once contaminated, hands can transfer the virus to your eyes, nose or mouth. From there, the virus can enter your body and can make you sick. Practice respiratory hygiene Make sure you, and the people around you, follow good respiratory hygiene. This means covering your mouth and nose with your bent elbow or tissue when you cough or sneeze. Then dispose of the used tissue immediately. Why? Droplets spread virus. By following good respiratory hygiene you protect the people around you from viruses such as cold, flu and COVID-19. If you have fever, cough and difficulty breathing, seek medical care early Stay home if you feel unwell. If you have a fever, cough and difficulty breathing, seek medical attention and call in advance. Follow the directions of your local health authority. Why? National and local authorities will have the most up to date information on the situation in your area. Calling in advance will allow your health care provider to quickly direct you to the right health facility. This will also protect you and help prevent spread of viruses and other infections. Stay informed and follow advice given by your healthcare provider Stay informed on the latest developments about COVID-19. Follow advice given by your healthcare provider, your national and local public health authority or your employer on how to protect yourself and others from COVID-19. Why? National and local authorities will have the most up to date information on whether COVID-19 is spreading in your area. They are best placed to advise on what people in your area should be doing to protect themselves. Protection measures for persons who are in or have recently visited (past 14 days) areas where COVID-19 is spreading Follow the guidance outlined above. Stay at home if you begin to feel unwell, even with mild symptoms such as headache and slight runny nose, until you recover. Why? Avoiding contact with others and visits to medical facilities will allow these facilities to operate more effectively and help protect you and others from possible COVID-19 and other viruses. If you develop fever, cough and difficulty breathing, seek medical advice promptly as this may be due to a respiratory infection or other serious condition. Call in advance and tell your provider of any recent travel or contact with travelers. Why? Calling in advance will allow your health care provider to quickly direct you to the right health facility. This will also help to prevent possible spread of COVID-19 and other viruses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Rockford, Illinois is the place where I lived recently. You're right, Chris, I'm not a member of this community, I'm just concerned about it enough to try and point out an obvious lack of proactive measures regarding the display and distribution of information pertinent to said community. Glenn, two questions, 1: Why don't you already have the CDC information post you replied to me here posted on every section here with blacksmith specific issues, like how to insure the bottle opener made for your neighbor won't potentially get them sick? 2: I'm done, this place is exhausting, almost entirely due to how I approach things and people. So if you're able, will you please delete my account? I've looked through the account setting and can't find where to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 This is a blacksmithing site, the CDC does not post blacksmithing issues and we are not the world information center for medical issues, you need to face the reality we are not going to spam this site with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Ramsberg, you have been a member of this community since you joined in September 2008 and you currently have 328 posts. It does not make sense to post coronavirus information to over 75 sections with blacksmith specific issues. No one would be able to follow over 75 conversations scattered across the site on the same subject of coronavirus. Information would be missed or not found. A coronavirus discussion was started on March 7 of this year and currently has 130 replies and 2,383 views. The opening comment for the discussion was how well you should wash your hands. The warning and the alert about coronavirus was sounded, and the discussion began at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Ramsberg it seems no one here is denying the validity of the concerns you have regarding the virus. However, for most people visiting the site, in search of "how to do such and such thing", the expectation of having admins add CDC info (which is changing as new information comes out) to every section of the forum where their search may lead, is a great deal of work. Especially on top of all that they are already doing to keep things running smoothly. It is is quite a lot to ask. Remember they are people like you and me and are also pressed with their own concerns for the same, or similar things as you. Follow the guidelines provided by the CDC and stated above and remember that, in many cases, shop time counts as social distancing. If you're worried of the things you're making harming someone, follow the necessary cleaning procedures and your customers/family will have nothing to worry about when it arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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