Tom7 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I've done a reasonable amount of cold iron work & welding and now want to add an anvil to my collection of tools. Looking around, I see I have two basic options for buying new: I can have a cast iron anvil fairly cheaply. I understand the downsides of these, I think - significantly lower rebound, more fragile & prone to damage / chipping. I can have a cast steel anvil much more expensively. These largely lack the downsides of the cast iron one. So, given a budget of about £120, am I better off with a 30kg cast iron anvil or a 5kg cast steel one? How much does the extra weight in the cast iron make up for the downsides? Is buying the cast iron one and welding a piece of 20mm hardened steel plate to the top of it a reasonable idea? I should mention that ironwork is still very much a hobby for me and I'm not likely to be doing more than a day a week at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Where you are located is going to make a huge difference in your options and pricing. Since you posted prices in pounds and weight in kilos, in the UK and most of Europe, old anvils are much more readily available and cheaper than in the US. And no, steeling a cast iron doorstop (ASO) is a fool's errand. Buying all the quality that you can afford now is never a bad decision in hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 An anvil in the 100-150 pound range (45 to 70 kb) is suggested for blacksmithing. A collection of improvised anvils is a good reference and can give you some ideas for items you may already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 A 12 pound steel anvil is more of a paperweight than a working anvil---unless you are only doing jewelry work on it or repairing folding knives. A 66# ASO of cast iron is a waste of money that could have bought you a large chunk of steel to use as an anvil. My smallest "travel anvil" is 91 pounds. My shop anvils are 165 pounds---and up! Talk with some of the folks in BABA (British Artist Blacksmith Association) about finding a good old anvil in your price range local to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Welcome aboard Tm, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll find out how many members live within visiting distance. A large amount of the subjects discussed have a regional aspect, locating and pricing: tools, equipment, etc. especially. We call Chinese cast iron ASOs (Anvil Shaped Objects) meaning they only LOOK like a London Pattern anvil but aren't much use forging iron/steel. They CAN be used to hold bottom tools: hardy, swage, fuller, etc. but that's about it. Oh O K A Y they make a decent boat anchor or door stop. I don't know why but a member or two actually recommends ASOs as a viable option. I've used boulders that are more effective than the ASO that got left here. Don't get caught up on the opinion you NEED a London Pattern anvil, it's a relatively recent pattern and far from a pattern used by most of the smiths around the world. Probably THE most used anvil pattern is a square block of steel spiked end grain into a log. A large sledge hammer head is also very popular as it's hardened steel and really common around the world. If you'll browse the Anvil section of Iforge especially Charles Stevens' contribution to improvised anvils you'll see how many excellent options are available for a little scrounging a trip to the scrapper and some grinding. Charles's rail road rail anvil is ingenious and as effective as any. Steel shafting mounted on end provides excellent depth of rebound which determined by the thickness from face to the bottom of the foot. The deeper the rebound the more effective the anvil is returning impact energy to the underside of the stock being worked. There are a number of high quality cast steel anvils being made today, several in America and I believe a number across the pond. If you decide blacksmithing isn't for you they don't really depreciate unless you do serious damage. Say someone uses it for a torch cutting table and burns trenches in the face. You see a lot of this on anvils in various shops for some reason metal fab shops seem to be especially bad about damaging anvils. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasent Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 My anvil cost me about $60 and some time with a good grinder. Drill and chisels for my hardy, Weighs 260lbs Has worked great for me and I’ve never felt I need a horn attached. If I do need a horn I use the one I made that fits my hardy. Its just a big chunk of steel and not a super tough steel either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Welcome aboard. I always suggest reading this to get the best out of the forum and stay off the moderators radar. READ THIS FIRST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benona blacksmith Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 8:49 AM, Tom7 said: 30kg cast iron anvil Can you post pictures of the 30 kg "cast iron" anvil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7 Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 6:50 PM, Benona blacksmith said: Can you post pictures of the 30 kg "cast iron" anvil? I'm looking at ebay link removed There is, shall we say, a lot of fluidity in how these are described on ebay. That one, for instance, is described as "Steel Anvil Blacksmith Double Beck Cast Iron 66 LBS" (steel? or cast iron?). But there is another which has the title "Round Horn 30KG Blacksmith Cast Steel Anvil Metal Work Double Horn Workshop" and in the description, "This anvil is made of drop-forged, high-grade steel for high hardness, maximum strength and durability." (Cast steel? or drop forged?) The images for them are identical. Thanks all for the feedback. Looks like a trip to the local scrap yard is on the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Instead of spending the money on a 5 kg. steel anvil you'd get off much cheaper with a sledgehammer head of the same or greater weight. Look around for any relatively heavy piece of steel. I use a 115# piece of RR rail mounted vertically. Have you browsed through the A collection of improvised anvils thread? Welcome aboard, be safe,and remember it's supposed to be fun. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7 Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 I have, yes. I'm heading to the local scrapper tomorrow to see what I can find. I'm getting by with a 3-way cobbler's anvil someone's lent me for the moment, but I'm only working on very light material at present - something heavier is definitely in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7 Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 Apologies for breaking the rules with they ebay link; an image of the ASO I was talking about is attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 That's not an ASO (Anvil-Shaped Object); it's an ANVIL. The Acciaio anvil is made from cast steel and has generally gotten good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Tom7 said: This anvil is made of drop-forged, high-grade steel for high hardness, maximum strength and durability Based on the image I find it extremely unlikely that the anvil in question is drop forged. Not having been to the factory I can't tell for sure, but based on the price I would expect it to be cast ductile iron rather than cast steel proper. Note that cast ductile iron is a significantly better material for anvils than cast iron, and several quite usable, modern anvils are made from this material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 The description of the anvil from the distributor is confusing. It does say cast iron in the description but it also says steel. What I've managed to parse out talking with folks that have purchased them is that any of the anvils sold by happybuy under 30kgs are in fact cast iron and the 30kg anvils marked accacio are steel. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 There was an extensive review/unboxing thread here on IFI about one of these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 After some individual purchases and experimentation, the New England Blacksmiths purchased 8 of the Acciaio 30kg (66 pound) anvils for our traveling teaching equipment. What we received is a medium quality cast steel anvil. Exactly what we were expecting for the price point, and totally adequate for a teaching /beginner anvil. Hard enough to survive being hit with hammers with some funkiness around the hardy and pritchel holes. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just curious, but how did you determine the anvils were cast steel rather than cast ductile iron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benona blacksmith Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I have talked to the factory rep in China and they are in fact c45 cast steel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Fantastic, did you ask them about their heat treatment process as well? I was just wondering if anyone had spark tested (or peeled a bit from the bottom of an anvil foot or the like) these anvils. The hammer damage to the surface in the link JHCC posted by HojPoj made me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benona blacksmith Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 They actually sent me a couple short videos of the manufacturing process. I didn't ask about the heat treatment though. Paul krzyszkowski was the first person to import these anvils to north America. You can get them all the way up to 300 Kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 C45 in these kind of sections can likely be water quenched and auto-tempered, if a iterative process is worked out, but it would take a lot of time and effort. For the price point I expect that no heat treatment has been done. However if it is actually C45 that might be something that a smith could do on their own (with access to a large enough coal fire and fire hydrant say...). Is there a easily perceivable difference between the casting process for steel verses ductile iron? I don't mean to belabor this, but it is possible that something may have been lost in translation during your communication with the factory. Not a real issue for a starter anvil like these, but a major consideration if someone wanted to either heat treat the anvil or, for some ungodly reason, weld something to it... I'm pretty sure there are ways to test for the difference between the two materials, I'm just wondering if anyone has done it to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benona blacksmith Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Mine was heat treated for sure. I got 90% rebound!!!!! And a file skates off the face but bites into the horn which tells me they were induction heat treated on the face and tail but not the horn. I know nobody wants to believe this but it is true. They are a good serviceable anvil!!! Im Not saying there isn't variations from one to the other but I have had 2 different ones. One 66 lb. And the other 110 lb. There is YouTube videos out showing the rebound clear as day 80-90%!!! I personally would put these anvils in a category above NC anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7 Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Wow, okay, thanks for the very useful info. This is recalibrating some of my thinking. The seller's description is indeed very confusing and I tend to assume the worst when there is any ambiguity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Generally wise, but I would absolutely trust Judson's experienced assessment. (No knocks on Benona blacksmith, to be clear.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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