is the end fitting of my t burner getting to hot?

[CheechWizard]

i have it mounted so that the burner sits nearly flush with the shell of my forge. the forge itself is insulated with 2 inches of kaowool and about 1/3 inch of refractory. everything works well however the tip of my burner gets glowing hot after about 20 minutes of use. i havnt had it on long enough to see if the heats will get all the way up to the T fitting because im worried this isnt normal. any feedback would be much appreciated

[Frosty]

No worries, it won't get hot far up the mixing tube unless it starts burning back and you'll hear that happen, just shut it off soonest. Chimney effect will make it HOT when you shut it off for the day unless you plug the air ports, aluminum foil is safe, cheap and easy, once the flow is blocked it won't get hot enough to melt.

The chimney effect is one of two main reasons I use copper tubing for the final propane supply to the burners copper won't burn like rubber hose. 

Nice looking forge, like it?

Frosty The Lucky.

[CheechWizard]

Yes! it functions very nicely. the burner seems to have an ideal mix. i have it mounted at an angel to reduce chimney effect and i always remove the burner after use to let it cool down faster. i get forging heat without using alot of fuel to.  

 

my first forge was a foot and a half piece of thin stainless chimney i scrounged with no refractory so i burnt thru my kaowool super fast.. it was also way too small.

 

I believe i built the burner using instructions you wrote Frosty.. same person? if so thank you

[Frosty]

You're welcome, the T burner design is mine. 

Did making it give you any trouble? 

I really like stainless chimney for cylindrical forge shells, it reflects more heat back into the forge. Not so important to me for the insignificant heat savings in the chamber but because the outside of the forge stays cooler. Fewer burns are good things. The stuff's expensive though.

Frosty The Lucky.

[CheechWizard]

the only thing i really experimented with was different orifices. i originally bought some .035mm mig nozzles. from what i remember it worked fine but i tried a bunch of different stuff to see what would happened. i efentually lost the original piece and happened to have a pencil torch head that fit the threads i tapped once i took the nozzle off.. just so happens to make a perfect jet. 

 

i actually made a downsized brass version of your t-burner with a rose bud style tip that i fit to a little 1lb propane tank. worked pretty good.

 

 

[pnut]

I dig the hinge you used for the burner port. Use what ya got. That's how I live life.

There's not a cabinet with a crooked door somewhere in your house is there?    ;-)

Pnut (Mike) 

Do you have a flare on the end? If you do is it flush with the inside of the forge?

[JHCC]

You can also reduce the chimney effect by having the T end of your burner down, as on this ribbon burner:

[pnut]

I'm not very experienced with gas forges but does anyone think his burner  is heating up after twenty minutes of use because the flare is flush with the shell and not sitting flush with the refractory layer?   Also the flare is a consumable isn't it?    Just wondering.

Pnut (Mike) 

I seen the flare on your burner cheechwizard, I thought the second pic was frosty's.

[CheechWizard]

im gonna stress test it tonight and see if i have any problems. if the rest of the buRner doesnt over heat then im good. thanks for all the input guys im glad i joined

[Another FrankenBurner]

What is the outlet size of your nozzle(the fitting at the flame end)?  It looks like it opens pretty wide but this picture could be misleading.  The wider the nozzle opens, the lower the fuel/air mix(FAM) velocity.  The few Frosty T burners I played with had a fairly low velocity in the first place.  The thread protectors which Frosty uses, don't open very wide.  If your nozzle opens too wide, the flame will ride inside of the nozzle instead of at it's outlet which cause that nozzle to heat up like crazy.  Not so good for a metal nozzle.  

I recommend pulling the burner and running it in open air.  You are looking for the flame to ride right at the outlet of the nozzle almost floating outside of it.  If it looks like it is inside the nozzle, it is the problem.  If the nozzle is not threaded on but slid on, you can play with adjusting it's position back and forth.  

If you have to make a new nozzle, I would experiment a little to find the smallest nozzle diameter which still prevents flame lifting.  Also, I would make it a nozzle which is slid on so it's position is adjustable(but I like adjustability).  

Out of curiosity, what is your nozzle?  

[CheechWizard]

It is a 1"  to 3/4" reducer coupler. so a quarter inch larger then the "shaft?". i went to look at the burner but my propane is almost empty so ill have to get back to you tomorrow

[Frosty]

CheechWizard, it's a matter of Iforge courtesy to NOT use tags, it does odd things in this OS and not what tags do in other software. We just use names, nick names, web handle, etc. 

By reducer coupler do you mean "Bushing reducer"? 

Dr. Another Frankenburner has a much better handle on outlet nozzles than I do, I just use a thread protector and mostly to make it easy to mount the burner. I'll leave you in his capable hands for this type tuning.

Frosty The Lucky.

[CheechWizard]

  .

Edited May 15, 2019 by Mod34
Commercial link removed per TOS

[Another FrankenBurner]

A good look at the flame will tell you what you need to know.  If you can, get a picture of the flame.  

[CheechWizard]

ok finally got around to gettin some pictures. looks like the flames does ride the inside of the nozzle quite a bit. however i ran the forge at prbly somethjng like 75% for an hour and a half and it stayed fairly cool up towards the air intake

[Another FrankenBurner]

I sure looks like the flame is riding deep inside the nozzle.  I don't have much experience with threaded fittings as nozzles.  You could try a 3/4 coupler to see if it still holds the flame.

You said 75% which I am guessing you are talking fuel pressure.  What kind of pressure are you running for these pictures?

What is the brass fitting in the side port of the inlet tee?  That is blocking the air inlet.

[Mikey98118]

"Circumstances alters cases."  Mabe he needs to shape up the performance of  that heavily reducing flame before worrying overmuch about overheating the flame retention nozzle. Fortunately his problem rests at the other end of his burner, so He can always get back to the nozzle later? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Another FrankenBurner]

Wait, so you are saying the cart goes behind the horses.  That makes sense, I think I got it now. 

Cheech, listen to Mikey.  Before your burner is dialed in, there is no point playing with the nozzle.  Dialing in your burner will most likely change where the flame rides within the nozzle.  Then if you still need to, play with nozzles.

[Frosty]

Agreed, it's running rich AND inside the burner. The existing flame is NOT filling the bell reducer you're using for a  nozzle so having it there at all is pointless, it's not working. 

I need to know a couple things before making suggestions. What is the purpose of blocking one of the intake ports? 

Side arm and T burners are only similar, they aren't the same thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

[CheechWizard]

frosty what are you using as an orifice? i reduced air intake to stablize the flame. i dont have a regulater so i cant control the pressure

[Frosty]

You at least have a needle valve in the circuit or you can't control pressure or flow. You MUST be able to control one or both to tune a burner. Seriously a  0-30 psi high pressure regulator runs under $30, needle valves go for under $10 in WASILLA AK!! 8' propane hoses cost considerably more.

One or the other and you're covered.

List the components you used or link me to the post if you already did.

Eg: T dimensions.

Tube dimensions, Dia x L.

Mig contact tip Dia. and fittings used to mount it.

We can talk about flares if you're in the ballpark. (Within tunable range)

I'll get back to you. What I use has zero to do with what you need and forget the PSI other people run their burners on, min-max has turned into a game with no practical benefit for the beginner.

Frosty The Lucky.

[CheechWizard]

so i had a flow ragulater laying around do i set it up. i havnt had any over heating issues and my forge is more fuel efficiant. i realize this is isnt ideal considering it had a set psi but it sure is helping. 

ive seen people use these with oxy/fuel cutting torches with good results. 

[jwmelvin]

While a flow regulator is a fixed-pressure regulator, it follows that with a needle valve; so it can regulate just as well as an adjustable pressure regulator. 

[Latticino]

But are they rated for safe operation with propane?  Label appears to indicate that they are for inert gas only.

[jwmelvin]

Aren’t the threads different? Did you adapt it somehow?