Idea for homemade anvil

[MeatMan89]

Hi guys, I have a hydraulic breaker chisel I want to make into an anvil. It is 3 foot 3 inches long, is 4 and a half inches in diameter and weighs around 300 pounds. I have been thinking I could cut it in half and make 2 separate anvils or keep it whole and use as 1 large post anvil. Any suggestions or ideas on how best I could utilize this hunk of steel would be greatly appreciated.

[ThomasPowers]

Cut in two but not in half: cut one piece the correct height for your forging (probably wrist height when standing straight with you arm hanging at your side). Leaving the other piece with the wedge end you can use as tooling.

[MeatMan89]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the advice. I was trying to figure out what I could use the chisel side for so that helps a lot.

[Eventlessbox]

If you or someone you know is a competent welder you could maybe even weld the chisel end to the flat on the the side of the other end and use as a square horn.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would fallow TP’s advice. As to the chisel end, it’s a cut off as but with a bit of grinding it’s a fuller to use drawing out. it is  wide

enugh for two profiles. Mount it on a separate stump or fabricated armmores bench and add bicks and other tools to it. A wide blades masonry chisel makes a better hot cut anyway. 

 

[Frosty]

I have to agree, trim it down to YOUR working height and mount it on end. The remainder is good stock for anvil tooling , top or bottom. 

Anvil face height for ME is approximately 31"  but I can adjust how I address an anvil to take up for other people's anvil height. You can determine your comfortable working height with the, very general departure point meter of standing in your work shoes and measuring from the your hammer hand wrist to the ground. THAT is a good starting height for the anvil face. It is ONLY the departure point it isn't THE right height for you.

A good test to determine your best within reason anvil height if you can't use it a while and adjust the anvil, would be to make a practice or test stand anvil. Cut a piece of 4" x 4" lumber wrist height and practice hammering 2"  x 4" or 1" x 4" lumber and examine the hammer marks. The hammer marks made to the 2" x 4" will probably be crescent dents open away from you. This indicates the impact point is high but t hat's to be expected if you were forging on a piece of stock 2" thick. Yes? 

If the hammer marks on the 1" thick lumber are even all round then the hammer face is striking parallel to the (test anvil) face. Yes? Good. Yes? Now try it on a piece of 1/2" plywood and look at the dents, are they circular? Good, yes? If they're open towards you then the model face is low IF you plan on working 1/2" thick stock or less. Yes?

On the other hand as a working blacksmith you need to be able to adjust your hammer strikes to  account for different stock thickness. You can't be changing your anvil height every time you change stock can you? Sure 2" is pretty darned thick stock but not if you're using a top tool, say a swage or chisel. Is it? 

A reasonably common stock STARTING thickness is 1/2" to 1/4" and every darned time you hit it it gets thinner and wider or longer. THAT is WHAT WE DO. Yes?

As a practical matter the blacksmith MUST be able to adjust his strikes to match the project while he's working. That's just a matter of practice. If you are going to be working with top tools: swages, fullers, chisels top dies, flatters, etc, or on bottom tools: swages, fullers, dies, closed or spring dies etc. frequently, then you may want the anvil face closer to the lower knuckle height, as for strikers.

So, I recommend you make some cheap lumber mock ups and see where YOU strike comfortably with a moderate, 2 lb. smooth faced hammer.

Take into account what you'll be using as a stand. That's a LOT of heavy steel so you WILL want a stable safe stand that won't get in your way.

Were I making the stand I'd probably torch a 2" diameter circle from 1/2" or a little thicker depending on what I had at hand or could buy cheap from a steel supplier's drops, (OLD timer tip!! As the guys in the yard NOT the counter!!) The guys at the counter have a minimum and cut charge they HAVE to charge. Yes? HOWEVER the guys in the yard are allowed to charge by the LB. and can cut to transport. Steel in the drop racks are often sold by the lb. at retail or scrap without the minimums. 

Okay, that's the old timer's tip for finding small quantities of steel plate and shapes. It also applies when you buy a couple 20' sticks of mild steel to practice with, say 1/2" round or 3/8" square mild. do NOT ask to have it cut to transport at the counter. The counter guy MUST charge per cut, usually in the $10 per cut range. The yard dogs just tick it on the say and whack it in half gratis. It keeps you from clamping it to your tail gate and cutting it with a hack saw. a 30 - 60 second job but you're in their way. Yes?

Anyway, about a stand for a PRIMO anvil like your breaker bit a 24" diameter disk of 1/2" or a LITTLE thicker, 5/8" is't excessive but don't get silly okay? Weld your now trimmed breaker bit in the center and it's not going to fall over on your toe. and the stand won't trip you. Grind the edge at an angle if you catch your toe on it. No big deal yes?

As a last thing I REALLY like about round plate stands like this is moving your anvil. Just tip it up on edge and roll it where you want it, Hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I am 6’2” and typically wear riding heals (2”) at the forge (I’m a farrier) so 32” is my anvil hight. I can work up to 36” tho I would prefer a palet for that. Lower is just a mater of bending ones knees.

 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

That bit has a lot of possibilities, and several ways it could be used.

It looks unused, so one option would be to sell it as it is looks to be worth around $500 online. Then pick up a used one , or put the cash towards a London pattern.

[MeatMan89]

Thanks for all of the advice, I wish I wouldn’t have been so hasty as cutting it down to working height seems like it would have been the best. I even have some left over 1” and 1 3/4” plate laying around I could have made a round base plate, but I slapped it on the band saw before reading all of the reply’s. I now have 2 sections measuring in at 19 1/2”. Frosty and Charles I took your advice and cut some 2x4 and plywood I would say my anvil height would be about 31”. With my haste I would assume I would be now looking to build a stand of sorts.

Big gun doctor the breaker bit I have is out of a old hammer that I have had to decommission years ago. The hammer and bit definitely got its money’s worth now just trying to reconstitute and figure out what I can make out of them.

Thomas powers sorry I forgot to mention you earlier. I see now I should probably take my time and pay closer attention to the advice given on here as it is very wise and much appreciated.

[Charles R. Stevens]

No great harm, a solid chunk of that size is still an impressive anvil, and after using the flat chunk a wile, you might cut the chisel in half again and lay the round on its side for a drawing anvil to go with your mondo fuller

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome to IFI MeatMan... Have you read this yet? It will help you get the best out of the forum. READ THIS FIRST

[Les L]

MeatMan,

You can cut 11.5 inches off the chisel end and weld it on the other to get your 31 inches.

[ThomasPowers]

Need to do a full penetration weld with preheat and post heat----probably better to use it with a good solid stand.

[Frosty]

Welcome to the club Meatman, we've all found out what we should've done after we did what we did. That'll still make an excellent anvil when you put it on a stand and you have a bushel basket of useful steel to make good stuff from.

Frosty The Lucky.

[materman]

If had been me, I would have cut the wedge off and welded it onto the top of a piece to make the horn, and then weld the other piece onto the horn piece. I have a 4' section of 4 1/2" I am making one similar. It will 3 16" uprights and a horn, and then be built up to form a rectangular face. Envious of the wedge for mine is just solid shaft. Good luck whatever you do.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Materman, medium and high carbon steel requires pre and post heat and anvils require full thickness welds.

For profetinal fabricators it’s not expetinaly daunting especially one one take into account the bragging right. But for me welding 5” of medium or high carbon steel is a task of deminishing returns as it dosnt make a substatualy beter anvil.

nit to say I don’t have a couple of anvil projects waiting in the wings.

[materman]

5 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Materman, medium and high carbon steel requires pre and post heat and anvils require full thickness welds.

 

Seams to me in my thinking, welding roundstock together would be the easiest way to produce full thickness welds. If he was to stand two up together side by side, you could achieve a full  weld by just feeling in the channel in between. Same as with roundstock laid on a flat surface, there it still a considerable void to fill in with weld that would be a full thickness weld. But maybe my thinking is wrong. I just see his two pieces with potential. And to meatman89, I believe 4 1/2"roundstock is around 54 lbs a ft.

[Charles R. Stevens]

It still would take a can or two of good rod or a cupped of spools of wire and a couple of bottles of  gas. Other than bragging rights, not a big gain for the time and consumables. Flat stock with a round spacers uses less consumables. 

Dont get me wrong their are some beutiful and functional built up anvils out there (I have seen a few in person) but just starting out a solid post and a bick are hard to beet for cost and functionality.

[MeatMan89]

Thank you iron dragon for the link to the newcomers page it was very informative, materman I was hesitant to put an exact number on the weight I just knew that sucker was HEAVY and gave it my best guess (probably could have looked that up)

[Frosty]

I think all of us have looked at a large piece of steel and thought about welding up an anvil, some have. A way to gauge consumables and time is to just lay an empty welding rod can in the space you wish to fill and count the cans. Figure a can of rod will fill well less than half, maybe 35% of the can's volume in run bead.

One of my early ideas was to collect all the trimmed pieces off grader edges, stack and weld them into an anvil. I just had to think about the reality of making 10-12 full penetration welds 12" wide and 18" long. I've done a few deep fillet welds and it's a major PITA, it was a paycheck though. 

You can ball park the weight of steel with 0.28lbs. per cubic inch. There's a fraction behind that and it's for iron rather than steel but it's close enough to ball park weight. The higher the carbon content the lower the mass/weight.

That's going to be a SWEET anvil, honest it will.

Frosty The Lucky.

[MeatMan89]

Reading through all of the comments I am looking at a bit of a different route now. Matermans thoughts have me really taking a step back and looking at this. If I Cut off the chisel side and the groove side I would be left with 2 pieces that were 10 3/8 long. I could fill the Chanel and use the chisel as a horn and would be left with a 9” hunk I could use as a simple post anvil... I am confident in my skill as a welder/fabricator but am sadly lacking in knowledge. I have some experience but haven't worked with a lot of hardened steel. I have about 50 lbs of both 6011 and 7018. Would I need to fill then hard face the last portion? Any ideas on temp for pre and post heat?

Frosty you have been a wealth of information thank you very much for your input. I am defiantly going to go with the round stand for sure, any suggestions on particular welding rod that would suite this type of work?

[ThomasPowers]

I think you could mow laws and buy a new anvil with the money that much time would involve...

[materman]

46 minutes ago, MeatMan89 said:

Reading through all of the comments I am looking at a bit of a different route now. Matermans thoughts have me really taking a step back and looking at this. If I Cut off the chisel side and the groove side I would be left with 2 pieces that were 10 3/8 long. I could fill the Chanel and use the chisel as a horn and would be left with a 9” hunk I could use as a simple post anvil... I am confident in my skill as a welder/fabricator but am sadly lacking in knowledge. 

I figured you being a heavy equipment owner and operator, you might have some welding skills. Let me get back with you and I will run some scenarios through my head and see if I could draw something up that might interest you. There might be a couple possibilities. And I don't think it would take that much time to weld up if you get some big Rod 3/16.

[MeatMan89]

Your most likely 100% correct Thomas power.

[MeatMan89]

I would assume if I went this route I would want the groove facing up so I wouldn’t have to fill a gap at the end. The groove is 1/2” deep would I hard face to build up flat?