JABOD 55 feedback

[8upSmith]

I read over the 55 forge instructions, and tons of JABOD posts and figured Id give it a whack. Any feedback would be awesome. Here's (hopefully) some pictures of the process, the shop (yeah, its a mess right now) and the finished 55BOD. I did an air flow test and it seems to work great flowing out the chimney. I'll need to replace parts of the chimney before I crank it up though since its old and filed with holes.

[ThomasPowers]

How do you heat the middle of a 3' bar in that set up?

[HojPoj]

Easy! You just grab an angle grinder and put the pass-through wherever it's needed. 

[8upSmith]

I had thought about that..... after putting everything in place. I have room cut a pass through window in the back.

though, since Im a complete noob, I dont plan on doing anything spectacular for a while yet that would require longer pieces.

Im hoping to have a second, smaller, gas forge built by the end of the year for longer pieces.

[ThomasPowers]

Longer pieces can mean you don't need tongs.  Very nice when starting out.

[8upSmith]

Ah, I had not thought of that. Though tongs are first on my list to make. We'll see how many times I screw them up though

[ThomasPowers]

It might work better if you learn some basic blacksmithing before trying to make tongs. They are not the easiest project when you are just starting out.

[Enewguy]

I agree! I think I already posted a picture of just that... A failure at making tongs. 

[Frosty]

Tongs are NOT a beginner's project. You not only need to perform several different techniques, you need to do them reasonably well but twice and well matched. 

The real sucky thing about making a pair of tongs really early on is finding out you don't really need them if you plan your projects well enough. Sure they come in handy but for the most part they're not a must in your tool box.

However, they ARE handy, were I you, knowing what I know now. I'd make a pair of twist tongs (search will bring them up) to start learning to forge. Then I'd probably experiment with them and see how versatile they are. I lucked into a bunch of tongs early on and am still darned poor at making tongs.

Frosty The Lucky.

[8upSmith]

While it breaks my heart to hear my first project is probably not anywhere within my grasp (cause I'm still a big dummy) I know I must hold my head high and carry on. 

 

I'll take a look for those twist tongs you mentioned. 

Before I can hit steel I need to get the smoke figured out. Lit the forge and smoked myself right out of the shop. Back to the drawing board on that one. 

Just started what I thought was a small fire to see how it works. Air blower worked great, fire stayed contained. But as you can see, the smoke stayed inside too

[Glenn]

What size or diameter is your chimney?

What is the size of the door you cut in the drum?

Did you preheat the chimney? 

We need to see the rest of the chimney set up so we can make suggestions. 

[Frosty]

58 minutes ago, 8upSmith said:

While it breaks my heart to hear my first project is probably not anywhere within my grasp (cause I'm still a big dummy) I know I must hold my head high and carry on. 

And a wise guy too. You are so going to fit in here. 

Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean you have to or maybe even should take it. Just because someone says something may be beyond your skill sets certainly doesn't mean they're calling you names.

My preference is to let someone prove themselves a dummy if they wish. Being quick with good comebacks contraindicates that claim you know.

Like puns?

Frosty The Lucky.

[8upSmith]

2 hours ago, Glenn said:

What size or diameter is your chimney?

What is the size of the door you cut in the drum?

Did you preheat the chimney? 

We need to see the rest of the chimney set up so we can make suggestions. 

I'll try to get more pictures and dimensions either tomorrow or Tuesday when I have time to get back to it. 

 

As for preheating..... Since I'm not exactly sure what that entails, I'm going to go with, no I did not.

[Frosty]

Preheating the stack is to break the cold air out and get the flow moving up. The easy way is to burn a couple sheets of news paper in the hood, I prefer to not roll it into balls but keep it loosely wadded so it burns faster. I do same thing in the wood stove.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I preheat the stack with a propane torch, the same one I use to start the coal once the stack is warmed and pulling a draft.

[Glenn]

Preheating the chimney is just that, getting a draft started. A couple sheets of paper scrunched up and set on fire works here for the wood stove, as well as the forge. Then build a fire from small sticks of wood, etc, to establish the draft and the fire. When you get to adding coal, the chimney is working and the fire sets the coal ablaze.  

In order for the chimney work, you MUST have an outside source for incoming air, such as a door or window open. Go outside and look at a chimney. All that smoke coming out of the chimney is the same amount of air that needs to come into the room, from the outside, to make up for the air going up the chimney. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

If you cut out the front in a big yawning mouth, from hearth hight to hand span from the top angled down to just over half way around you still have a hood and can stick stock sideways threw the fire. Blacksmiths tend to work from the side anyway. 

If you had used the 55 sideblast plans and what you had learned from the JABOD threads you could have simplified your build emensly. Brake drums are just a complication imho.

 

[Glenn]

Charles, not to contradict what you said, but to explain the size of the opening I use.

I set the top of the opening at a line from eye level where you normally stand to forge, to the back of the drum and fire. The opening is 8 inches either side of the center line of the opening or 16 inches total. The opening is an arch in shape. This cuts the top corners of the opening and reduces the air intake at that point. This way you do not block you view of the fire, and you block any stray air from entering, which encourages the smoke to enter the opening.

You only need to cue a hole in the back of the drum if you need a pass through. Then cut a small hole only as large as needed for the project at hand.

There are so many different variables so this is only a place to start. Modify things as needed so it works for you. 

[Daswulf]

A couple things I see is this reducer is not helping you.

Also, is that open space where it goes into the barrel? 

Size of the flue pipe should be 10-12" for better results. 

How high does the stack go up past the roof and how close to the peak? 

[8upSmith]

Daswulf,

There is a bit of open space there, I didnt want to lock anything down until I knew it would work (at least halfway decently). The reducer fit the hole I had cut and added the extra couple inches I needed to reach the barrel.

The stack goes up about 5 feet, makes  a right angle turn and punches out of the wall for about another 3-4 feet.

Charles,

The break drum is in there to hold all the pieces together. Im not really very mechanically intuitive so it seemed the best way to connect an air pipe and an ash dump. And, rightly or wrongly, I figured it would be a good spot to congregate the charcoal and heat.

 

Glenn et al,

Okay, after reading ya'lls description of preheating, it seems that I did indeed to that. I started with a pile of papers, burned through that and then slowly started building the fire in it. Might still have gone too big too fast though. Not really sure. Im used to operating burn barrels, no smoke stacks on those. Also, I'm guessing the external air temperature has a lot to do with how much preheating is going to be needed. Its gotten a bit chilly round here so I'll work on that.  

 

From what I can tell, most of the smoke actually seemed to come out at the lid seams, with some coming out of the cut-out. I had both the double doors and the main door open, as well as adding airflow through the air inlet with my shop-vac (set to blow).

 

----- If Im reading ya'lls comments right, I think I need to lengthen the part of the stack sticking to the outside, close of the opening at the reducer, remove the reducer entirely and preheat the forge longer.

Should the forge outlet be the same size or smaller than the stack? I can cut some sheet metal to size as a mediator between the forge and stack to reduce hole size, or.. make a larger hole to accommodate the stack.

 

Frosty,

Punfortunenantly I'm very puncomfortable with puns. To say that I lack a sense of humor is a punderstatement.

 

[Glenn]

Cutting the top of the drum like you would cut a pie and folding the wedges UP is great. It creates a hole as well as stabilizes the chimney to the opening. Only problem is that the wedges should go INSIDE the chimney. Skip the reducer that way.

The stack should be 10 to 12 inches in diameter. But try what you have first.

You can reduce the opening with any thin tin sheet metal and a couple of screws. All your doing is blocking air.

Add some length to the outside vertical pipe. Get it at least 3-4 feet above anything within 10 feet. Watch the smoke for air currents from trees, buildings, etc and adjust as needed.

[Daswulf]

90°elbows reduce the draft, so if you are using too small pipe to begin with it will reduce the draw more. Not as much a problem in a closed sealed system like a wood burner, but with an open system like a forge the stack size and most direct route (like straight up) is better. Gradual bends will work better than sharp ones. Like Glenn mentioned you'll want it around 4' higher than anything within 6-10' around it, meaning the wall or roof peak.

Don't mind the cap, one can be made of tin and work fine (tho, my last one did rot away after 4 or 5 years, and this whirlydid cap I replaced it with was a freebee). For the cap tho you want a good opening to let the exhast out of the top of the stack as well. 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I understand, the internet and many books inundate folks with the idea of the break drum forge. Originally forges were holes in the ground with blow pipes, then some one invented the bellows and attached it to a pipe into the side of the hole. A box full of dirt with a hole and a pipe in the side gives a good place to hold the fire,  clinker collects bellow the pipe instead of directly over the air hole. Thus a side blast forge instead of a bottom blast forge. 

Glenn, different strokes, brother. I like a bigger opening to see what I am up to. Just an 8” deep pan cut from the bottom and a 5 gallon steel bucket with a flue for a side draft flue works to...

 

[Arthur210]

Try starting a very small fire with a bit of paper and kindling, *without* starting your blower. This will allow a little bit of hot air to start moving up into your chimney. As the hot air moves up, it will pull more air into the chimney and you can add more fuel.

It is only when that is going well that you will start *gradually* adding more air to the fire with your blower. Then you can start adding coal into the mix.

I may have missed it, but you haven't told us the diameter of your chimney. As others have said, 10-12" is best, though 8" can work for some setups.

I only have an 8" chimney but I use a side sucker. I prime my chimney first. And my forge uses charcoal, which is relatively smokeless.

[8upSmith]

Arthur,

Im not sure on the exact size... Im guessing 8". Im going to try and get down there tomorrow to make measurements of all of it. I'll also try the slow and steady route. Im also using charcoal in mine. I got tired of reading the debates between charcoal and coal... and where I live I have an almost unlimited supply of trees

Daswulf,

I dont really have room for anything other than a straight bend through the wall unless I want to punch a hole in the roof (not something Im in a position to do at the moment). When I get around to re-roofing it later this year I'll be able to put a different stack in.

Glenn,

I'll take the reducer out, strap some more pipe to lower it to level and through the petals on the inside of it. Might need to pick up a new piece to fit the width and give that a shot.

Charles,

I used the brake drum to hold the pipes and shape the dirt. As simple as they seem to be, most of the brake drum forges I saw are beyond my current ability to put together. 

 

All, thanks much for all the advice (and patience).