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I Forge Iron

First Damascus


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So here is my first attempt at making damascus.  I used lots of little rods of spring steel, with 1080 powder to fill the voids.  I coated the inside of the canister with thinned wood glue mixed with titanium dioxide, which separated well.  Probably not a big deal for most here, but a landmark for me.  The next stage seems to be forging this into some sort of knife shape, which should prove a challenge. My assistant (shown in the image) approves of the progress so far. 

damascus.jpg.e50ea44e7d65c5f804f6b1999394faaa.jpg

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That is very cool, congrats!

 

Did you work the billet by hand? Also, maybe you can answer me this question: Making damascus seems to be a flux intensive endeavour. I can't have borax, so I already asked myself, if canister damascus could solve my problem. So, did you need borax at any point of making the billet?

 

I also like your anvil! And your little helper, of course. ;)

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Hello ThomasPowers,

 

I live in Germany. Borax has been banned here a few years ago, it seems. It's now classified as poisonous or something. You can only buy it now if you have a business AND you have to bring evidence, that you really need that stuff.

 

It's a bunch of bull, if you ask me. But, here I am, not able to buy borax like the rest of the world.

On the other hand, I'm a beginner and can't even get a nail right. So, forge welding (and especially making Damascus) is far off, anyways, for now. Maybe I find another way till then.

 

Also, I don't even know how much borax a person needs. Maybe I could get my hands on, like, 500gr. But I don't even know if it's worth the hassle for that amount, if I need the whole batch for one connection between two bars or something.

 

Anyways, it's a little discouraging.

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Seems that borax has been banned throughout the EU. Although Borax is often the flux of choice due to its low cost and the ability to apply it to metal while hot, it is far from the only flux that can be used to pattern weld. As Thomas mentioned, flux is not even necessary at all to forge weld, although  it does make things much easier. Throughout history many different fluxes have been used from sand to clay slurries, only in the past couple centuries being replaced with borax. The most common alternative methods still in use today generally involve hydrocarbons, such as kerosene or WD-40. It is important to note that the are applied to the metal BEFORE firing, as opposed to borax that can be applied while hot. 

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Clean quartz sand or ground glass were used extensively with real wrought iron which is often quite self fluxing due to the metal silicates contained. The also take high heats well where such fluxes will melt.

Charcoal ash also has been used---again it works best at high heats.

IIRC there was a discussion of moving to borax fluxes with the change from real wrought iron to Bessemer/Kelly process (and subsequent processes) steel in Practical Blacksmithing, Richardson, published in 1889,1890,1891. 

Borax was known as a flux earlier for jewelry work with it's high temp solders.

High temps where the scale melts helps when not using a flux as does strict control of the atmosphere to make sure it's reducing. I would contact other Smiths in Germany to see what they are using as flux since the ban.

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Thank you guys!

That is some good information and I will look into it. I didn't want to hijack toadboy65 's thread, sorry for that.

 

Just a last remark  - Daswulf : Exactly that shop is a good example. They sell borax, but they might want to see your business license. As I said, mainly private persons, like I am, are forbidden to buy it anymore.

 

But thanks guys! I will see if I can get some, seeing that a small amount might go a long way, and / or find some alternatives.

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Let me get this straight.

In Europe,  you need a business license to carry out chemistry reactions and experiments?

Curiouser and curiouser.

SLAG.

In general, boron compounds can be toxic, and requires some knowledge for safe use.

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I used a mild steel canister 5cm x 5cm x 10cm or so. Filled it almost completely with the spring steel rods, then added 1080 powder bit by bit, shaking it to settle and fill the voids. I attached a steel rod for a handle, drilled 3mm hole, then immersed the whole thing in used motor oil overnight.

Once it had soaked in the forge long enough, I started hammering.  I do not have a power hammer, but I do have a shop press. The press is of limited use, because it is too slow to be much help. I did press the billet a couple of times in the early stages, but have mostly hammered by hand since I took the canister off. I used borax after removing the canister, but that was probably unnecessary.

As of today, it is about 25cm x 4cm x .5cm. It does not seem to have any voids or delamination,  and I can no longer see the "grain" of the original materials.

But the amount of hand hammering I have done on this is just crazy.

Also, I am sort of winging it as far as technique. I may be missing steps or shortcuts, or doing unnecessary work.  I am working solo, and do not have a mentor on this. I tend to set absurd goals for myself, then pursue them with fanatical determination until I succeed. My first real blacksmithing project was when I was in college, and spent a couple of years making a percussion rifle using Foxfire #5, with a small coal forge on the balcony of my dorm. (The fire department eventually got used to me).

Here is that rifle, if anyone is interested:

rifler.thumb.jpg.75b3acd733161d26fb3a25e0b57311f5.jpg

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Thank you toadboy for the explanation! And for using metric. ;)

 

That rifle looks pretty nice! I actually have the fever dream of one day making such a rifle by myself. Unfortunatly, I would have to get a gun license which is expensive and usually hard to come by here.

You had a coal forge on your balcony?! I'm not even allowed to set up an electric grill on mine...

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Nice piece of cannister damascus.

I live in belgium; and I bought my borax on the German Amazon.de ... but I can't anymore.

When did this regulation changed ? Also; what harmfull thing besides annoying people can you do with borax ?

I'm not worried yet; as I have a LOT of kilo's left, and I never use much at all because it eats my gasforge's floor.

As Borax is used as flux in making jewelry; by horseshoe makers; by glas-blowers.. you should be able to find some.

Also; if you have welding sticks; can't you just beat that powder off ? Give it's purpose; it should have some flux-like capabilities no ? Hmmm gotta try that at home; it may even work better than borax without destroying my forge ...

 

mvg; Bart

 

 

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I think it's regulated in the EU since 2009. It seems like people used Borax as nutritional supplement, like magnesium and stuff. And it looks like animal test showed, it can be dangerous in larger quantities.

I'm pretty sure, salt can be dangerous too, if you eat 5kg of it. Yet it isn't banned.

 

I have no idea what this is about. Maybe they still sell it in pharmacys... If you come around to test the welding sticks theory, let us know how it went! That is a good idea.

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Here is the lump as of today:

lump122218.jpg.0f140b898c4b2b2cb81737a1708334fd.jpg

I am still working on basic geometry.  It turns out to be not as thick as I had liked after removing hammer marks. The ones closer to the edge should be gone once I finish working that part of the knife. Or so I hope.

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