What scrap metal should I lookout for.

[Robotick]

Hello, New apprentice blacksmith here.

I work in an engineered wood mill (LVL and OSB mill) that is being built. I noticed the litteral tons of metal that was thrown away and asked my boss if I could salvage some of it. Is answer was: If its in the thrash, take it. I dont know much about steel grade and how to see the difference between them so I was wondering if you guys could give me a general idea of what is worth taking.

What is thrown away range from steel plate (very thin to half inch thick), steel cable, square tube, pipes, rebar, railing, nuts, bolts, tools, I beam, aluminium wire rack, etc

I know that rebar is good to practice on, but not so good for knife making. I also know that galvanised steel create Dangerous fume when heated so i watch out for that. I Don't have any power tool to cut and preshape bigger pieces. As of now my experience is basically shaping some railway spike I found. I havent tried actually making something. I'm just asking so i can keep an eye out in the next months as i get better. 

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Glenn]

Most things are usable at some point. You just have to have a place to store them until that time comes along.

Discarded tools are always fun. They may have been discarded for warn brushes (electrical motor contacts) or who knows why. Many are repairable at little or no cost. Nuts and bolts are always usable. Anything except rebar that is solid with shape (round or square). Pipe and square tubing has many possibilities. The aluminium wire rack could be useful for storage.

Buy a hacksaw and make a chisel. Many solid items can be scored or partially cut with the chisel and then broken at the mark. Other things can be cut to a manageable length, or scored and broken. Thomas Powers took a bow saw and replaced the blade with a long hacksaw blade. Now the saw stroke was much longer and the cut was much easier and faster.

How much is too much? When you no longer use the material to build things. In order to get rid of some of the excess material, go to a blacksmith meeting and put the material in the iron in the hat, or use it as a trade item.

 

[JHCC]

Even the stuff you can’t forge (aluminum, galvanized) can be hauled to the scrapyard and turned into cash. 

[MC Hammer]

Take as much as you can.  As you forge more you'll see what you are not using and can take it to the scrap yard for cash.  Plate steel is always useful in my opinion.  You can make a cut-off plate to protect your anvil when cutting hot stock with chisels & you can make all sorts of things out of it.  Rebar gets a bad name because it's made of all kinds of scrap metals.  One section could be hard high carbon steel for an inch and then right into crappy quality steel.  With that said, you can make things out of it that don't require a cutting edge.  Later on you will enjoy welding stock to the rebar instead of trying to hold onto it with tongs.  Keep at least a few lengths of it handing around.  Steel pipes (not galvanized) that are usually black in color and will rust are useful in forging candle stick holders.  Keep your eyes peeled for jack hammer bits as well.  

[JHCC]

Also, welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!!

[ThomasPowers]

I consider  rebar to NOT be a good practice material.  I consider it to be excellent for reinforcing concrete and pretty much poor for everything else. I don't even use it for tentstakes.

Now I will also weigh in against taking *everything*  unless your boss asks you to to clean up the site. (You can ask him---I got the roof for my shop by a friend being tasked with cleaning up a major re-roofing project site, overrun and slightly damaged steel roofing!)   You don't want the boss to think you are very willing to loot stuff from the company!

So start with the good stuff and work your way down...Got a picture(s)?  we can coach better if we can see exactly what you are talking about.

The saw Glenn mentioned used a section of metal cutting bandsaw blade for the blade. I punched the mounting holes above the harder tooth zone and a bit closer together than the wood blade so it would have a bit more tension.  I cut it with a set of bull nosed tin snips from the back of the blade where it's softer towards the teeth where it's harder---I break the hardened bit by flexing it in my hands.  The bandsaw blade is much less likely to break in use and I get them free as they tend not to wear out as much as get damaged in a location and trashed.

[MC Hammer]

When I said take as much as you can, I didn't mean everything so thanks for clarifying that Thomas.  Yes, you do not want to look like you are taking advantage of a good thing.  You could even offer to take the rest to the scrap yard for your boss and give him the money.  Pretty soon you will be having the pick of the best stuff and your boss feels like he's getting something out of the deal.  That's what I'd do.

[Hans Richter]

My dear Thomas,

have no idea how you come to your traumatic experiences and opinion on reinforcing steel? As an assessor for product compliance in construction products, however, I can guarantee that the alloy/element mixture of the various types of reinforcing steel up to and including some 0.00..% is under control (at least at the electro-oven steel plants I know in Europe and Asia). This is valid for all relevant alloying components such as Mg, Al but also for the unwanted P, N, Cu and S, which are washed out by means of the Besemer method until the chemical analysis meets the desired chemical specification. With a tensile strength of> 550MPa and a yield strength of 500MPa, the steel itself is sometimes stronger than normal mild/structural steel but equally forgeable once the martensitic outer surface and ribs have been brought back to austenite/ferrite after heat treatment. It is also use for rebar-couplers, and is in this case many times forged (threat heads) and forge(friction)welded thousand & thousand times.
To give an example, there is even micro-alloyed reinforcing steel (Al) that is/must be used in earthquake regions. The steel is high ductile and announces its collapse due to high elongation, with the result that a building will not collapsed immediately but gives residents time to escape. Rebar will/have safe(d) lives
Sorry for my fiery argumentation for/pro reinforcing steel, but for now I think it is an excellent forging steel especially for decorative elements.

Kind regards, Hans

[JHCC]

Hans, European standards and American standards are significantly different. As I understand it, American standards are based on minimum performance criteria (tensile strength, ductility, etc) and not at all on chemical/metallurgical content.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Hans, as with many things American our rebar is just made to a different standard than European rebar. Over here it is the hot dog of the metals because you never really know what is in it.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I have used rebar here in the states on many occasion to forge noncritical items. Never use it for punches, chisels, tongs or knives. The only thing I had fail made out of rebar was a pair of tongs that I made early on. Decorative items with no stress or welding on a bar for a handle no problem for me. Perhaps I'm lucky because most of the rebar I have was produced in the states, not imported from China.

[Marc1]

Take as much as you can carry would be my answer, however your question lacks one critical component. What do you want to make? 

From the list of steel sources you mention, besides bolts if they are high tensile and rebar, the rest is most likely mild steel. 

If you want to practice forging, nothing better than mild steel. You will need a tool to cut steel into manageable sizes. The cheapest tool for that purpose but also a dangerous one, is a 5" grinder topped by a 1 mm ( 1/32" )cutting disk. Goes through steel like butter and a box of disk is relatively cheap. You will also need a full face mask and some steady strong arms to go with it, not to mention someone who can show you the basics, mainly what not to do with a grinder. There is bound to be a fitter in that factory that can tell you how to cut safely. 

Best of luck and if you are starting blacksmithing why don't you try to be different and avoid the usual 'making a knife! ', and try your hand at making something else ... how about a lamp?

[Robotick]

On 7/19/2018 at 10:41 AM, ThomasPowers said:

So start with the good stuff and work your way down...Got a picture(s)?  we can coach better if we can see exactly what you are talking about.

Here is whats in the metal scrap bin today. It's usually don't look that dirty and trashy.  Some day will have more thing than other. Like that aluminium pole (right side of the picture against the back of the bin) Would that make a good tuyere for my box of dirt forge? The metal plate (bottom lef) Can I make something worthwhile with that as far as forging go? My setup is very rudimentary. Also, I'm always on the lookout for an ASO but so far i found nothing.

I dont want to take too much and draw attention to it. My boss attitude when I asked him was "I dont have time for this peasant xxxxxxxx" If other people start to pick through trash and it become a problem for him, he will just forbid it all together.

Thanks a lot for your help! I did not expect such response! It is very much appreciated!

On 7/19/2018 at 6:36 PM, Marc1 said:

if you are starting blacksmithing why don't you try to be different and avoid the usual 'making a knife

Thank for your reply Marc. Knife making is kind of why i want to start blacksmithing, but I understand this is not a project for beginner. I'm really not into decorative object. I intend to spend a lot of time making leafs and S hook during my first year as many people on the internet suggested, but I want to create useful item in the future. I really want to make some tong right now. If someone ask me to make them decorative item I will be more than happy to make it for them, but I really don't see the point of doing it for me.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Mod34
Edited for inappropriate language

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

The aluminum pole won't make a tuyere for a side draft forge. It's too light and will melt right away.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I would snag the chain and matching sprocket(s) just to have them. Sculpture material, wide hold down for the anvil, lots of possibilities.

[John in Oly, WA]

Definitely the chain and sprocket. Any mild steel you see and is that pallet strapping or bandsaw blade in there? Might grab that too.

[SLAG]

Dirt and  rust  can be the start of something wonderful.

That's what smiths do.

SLAG.

[Robotick]

8 hours ago, SLAG said:

Dirt and  rust  can be the start of something wonderful.

That's what smiths do.

SLAG.

Thats definitely my mindset and the reason why i created this thread.

 

8 hours ago, John in Oly, WA said:

is that pallet strapping

Pallet straping. There are litteral keg full of that here.

[anvil]

On 7/19/2018 at 8:41 AM, ThomasPowers said:

I consider  rebar to NOT be a good practice material.  I consider it to be excellent for reinforcing concrete and pretty much poor for everything else. I don't even use it for tentstakes.

I agree. 

The type of scrap to collect changes with time. I used to take anything  including engine blocks!

Focus on tool type steels and any scores on dimension mild steel if you are headed twards "general blacksmithing"

I never turn down wrought iron and that is primarily what I take now.

 

[Gods Metal Works]

I would look out for the steel cable. You could use them to pattern weld if your into that. I would look out for sucker rod if you find them I've been told they are 4130 or something similar in chemistry, but they are normally really big like 20 foot sections. That is what I have. By the way take my word with a grain of salt because I just began blacksmithing 1 year ago.

[JHCC]

Do be aware that many steel cables for outdoor use (e.g., to keep utility poles upright) are galvanized and are therefore (for our purposes) only good for their scrap value. If a cable is thick with old black grease, that’s usually a good sign that it’s not galvanized, but check anyway.