eyrian Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I have decided to fire my coal forge using an electric blower. To get it adjustable, I've considered two methods 1) Building something like this; or 2) Having a sliding cover over my blower's intake that restricts the air flow. Does anyone know if the first thing will actually work? It says it's designed for an electric motor, but I'm far from being an electrical engineer. Are there any downsides to physically restricting air intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal L Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 If the motor doesn't have a start winding then you should be able to use a rheostat to control the speed. They a fairly inexpensive at Lowe's or Home Depot. You could restrict the intake or you can use a blast gate between the blower and forge which is what i have on my forge. McMaster-Carr has them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 When it comes to electronics I'm a first class weldor so I don't know what the diagram says. However, I do know the electronic cycle controlers work fine with induction motors but power reduces with RPM. Restricting intake works fine as long as the motor doesn't rely on blower air for cooling. A bypass in the outlet is another if more complex option that allows plenty of air for the motor. Bypassed air can be directed up the flue to increase draft. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Covington Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Why not put an air gate in the line, it won't hurt a thing and is simple to adjust. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmancreek Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I use an air gate that I bought from the internet. Simple and works well. You might also consider adding a spring loaded foot switch, so that the blower is shut off when you step away from the forge. After you forget to shut off the air and burn up some steel, you'll find it handy. I made one from the foot switch that came off an old sewing machine. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 I just use a butterfly valve I made to go in the pipe, it looks like the manual choke on a carbuerator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksmth Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 When you buy a CF PB50 blower you get with it a speed control which is a heavy duty light dimmer switch normally used to dim lights. Most folks that use that blower only use the speed control, infrequently, to slow down the speed of the motor, when possible, to keep the noise of the motor down to a more comfortable level. The electronic speed controller works, but the motor reacts too slowly for most folks. Everyone I know uses an additional aluminum & galvanized sliding gate in the output tube as a main air controller. CF sells sliding gates for around $12 (been awhile since I checked the price). They can also be purchased from woodworking supply stores as a damper for sawdust collection systems. Maybe they can be purchased from the local furnace supply outlet. I made a sliding gate for my permanent forge. I put the CF sliding gate on my portable forge. I'd never make another one considering the price of the purchased sliding gate and since it works exceedingly well. I have a pivoting plate that covers the input of the fan on my gas forge. It works well also, at least for that purpose, but wouldn't work well for my coal forge as the fan is to low and inconvenient to reach. The sliding gate on my coal forge works off a push pull rod right under my forge table next to the firepot. It is handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Covington Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 I suggested an air gate but any kind of valve will work. I set mine and very seldom move it. I also use a foot control, saves a lot of coal. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Thomas Powers once mentioned, that it is better and easier on the blower motor to restrict the amount of air going into the blower, rather than restrict the air coming out of the blower. I have my forge setup so, i set the blower at whatever level of airflow I need, then have an ON/OFF air dump valve, on when heating off when you step over to the anvil to hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 (edited) Yo can make a sliding air gate very simply: IronFlower Forge - Construction Although this on is implemented on the output (blow) side of the blower, there is nothing to stop you doing it on the intake (suck) side. Something I've been interested in but not yet needed is a blower muffler. I read this in The Artist Blacksmith by Peter Parker-Pearson; build a box from boards (lower density is probably best) and line it with something like rockwool (quite loose fibreglass insulation). Put the blower inside and have the intake hole reflexed; rather than just a hole, build an extra insulated enclosure at 90 degrees to the axis of the hole. With this setup you can reduce noise, easily add an intake filter and, crucially for this thread, add an intake control gate, irresepective of how your blower is built. Edited May 17, 2008 by matt87 Pur speelin an grammare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 My blower is so quiet, you barely know it is on at all. It's the one from BS depotBlacksmiths Depot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Dutchmancreek said: I use an air gate that I bought from CF. Simple and works well. You might also consider adding a spring loaded foot switch, so that the blower is shut off when you step away from the forge. After you forget to shut off the air and burn up some steel, you'll find it handy. I made one from the foot switch that came off an old sewing machine. Steve Thats a great Idea! ANY PICTURES? Thanks,Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Yo can make a sliding air gate very simply: IronFlower Forge - Construction Although this on is implemented on the output (blow) side of the blower, there is nothing to stop you doing it on the intake (suck) side. Something I've been interested in but not yet needed is a blower muffler. I read this in The Artist Blacksmith by Peter Parker-Pearson; build a box from boards (lower density is probably best) and line it with something like rockwool (quite loose fibreglass insulation). Put the blower inside and have the intake hole reflexed; rather than just a hole, build an extra insulated enclosure at 90 degrees to the axis of the hole. With this setup you can reduce noise, easily add an intake filter and, crucially for this thread, add an intake control gate, irresepective of how your blower is built. Hi, Matt, i'v been looking foor building plans for a good sliding gate, but I don't lake the idea of making it in wood... does annybody have anny plans for one in anny metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Try contacting John B. He build most of the English water cooled forges at Westpoint Forge; they use a metal sliding air gate at the back, controlled by a horizontally pivoting level at each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Beamish Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hi Eyrian, a simple restriction device on the air inlet side like an adjustable flap will work fine. Take note of Frosty's advice though 'as long as the motor doesn't rely on blower air for cooling'. I've used such a system for years at home and at classes I run, no problems. I'll get out to the shed later today and take a photo of my setup and you'll get the idea. Your blower maybe different to mine. I'll also post the details of the blower because I believe there will be a US verson available. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Two Toes? A dingo eight the rest? Sorry, couldn't resist. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Beamish Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Thanks Frosty, Maybe it was Frostbite! No the truth is they reckon I'm too slow to be a three toed sloth so therefore I must have only two toes. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Another idea on air control is if you are using a bottom blast forge with air entering into the side of the ash dump area, if you have an ash dump plate that is pivoted so it crosses the base like a shear blade, as opposed to dropping down, Then by moving the plate across in small increments, then the amount of blast can be controlled as you can balance the amount of air going to the forge tuyere with amount of air being expelled from the exposed ash dump. Just don't have anything combustible around the base of the forge This is not a method I would use personally, but it is effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I just use a dimmer switch on my blower on the brick forge. It works fine. I don't have one on the latest of the portable ones so if I want to reduce the blast I just open up the ash dump- gets rid of ash and splits the flow. If you want a good picture of an air gate look at Vaughans new on line catalogue. It is very well illustrated. Vaughans (Hope Works) - For all your Blacksmith and Foundry needs. and follow the link to the catalogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I use a butterfly valve, on my bellows to control the air and the same thing on my lectric blower on the forge at the shop. Side blown nozzle with built in butterfly valve for bellows. Open Closed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Beamish Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) Hi Eyrian, As I promised here's the photos of my setup with the air gate on the inlet side of the blower. The old blower I've been using for about 6 years with no problems and it's very quiet and hardly gets any warmer than about 75-80 degrees F after a full day. I've included photos of a new blower so you can see what it's like inside and it's label, the blower casing is about 5" inches in diameter, the ruler is a 12". The model I use is a Fasco EB80.I've checked the Fasco USA site and I couldn't find it so its probably an Australia only model. However it is an 80cfm single phase centrifugal blower and there some of them on the Fasco USA site they look a little different but I reckon they're basically the same blower. A US supplier sells this model for $66.00 (That's about half what I pay in Australia for the EB80). Now to clarify further the air delivery (tuyere)system I use is a modified German system with a grate (the coals burn on top of the grate) and I use only coke or charcoal as a fuel, not coal. There is little restriction to the air flow from the blower and the air coming out of the grate is fairly low pressure but at good volume. If you are using a more traditional single outlet tuyere in your forge this may alter your blower requirements from mine. I'm sure Fasco will have something to suit as they manufacture blowers and motors for just about anything and are OEM suppliers for many manufacturers. I hope this helps, and the photos work,its my first effort at an upload. Cheers. Edited May 21, 2008 by Bruce Beamish Spelling and Grammar corrections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Surplus Center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry harley Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 ther,s a difference between velocity and volume u need to be able to controll both harley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I think it was Bob Patrick or maybe Frank Turley that stated at one of our Conferences that you only need 2 ounces of pressure to make a forge firepot work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Beamish Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Both Irnsrgn and Larry make valid points. I was just trying to point out that the system I use is different and what works for me may not work with a traditional setup, I've not used these blowers with a single outlet tuyere either bottom or side blast. My handcranked Lancaster blower that I use on my portable demo forge (with the same grate system) is capable of a lot more pressure at the outlet but when the forge is burning well I hardly have the handle turning over. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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